Does this prohibit Bumps now?
No. But you should not spam them :P
Bumping puzzle that lasts for a week every day is fine. Bumping the same puzzle every hour is too much.
Bumping group recruitment (so thread that never expires) every week or month. But not every day, as we do not have enought new threads in group recruitment category every day, for old thread to drop into middle of the list of group recruitment topics. Esp in case when creator is only one that bumps thread for weeks... it means communuty is not interested in their group at all.
We dont have stiff guidelines here, as every case is bit different. So use your common sense. If you bump topic, and no one interact with it - it means you should not try to keep it in top mo matter what. Same as there is no sense in bumping thread on your own, when last user reply was hour ago.
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Esp in case when creator is only one that bumps thread for weeks... it means community is not interested in their group at all.
Ouch :P
Since your answer is a bit more specific regarding bumping a guild recruitment thread, I'd like to ask - I only bump the group thread when there are special GAs going on (milestones or sponsored GAs) though, so sometimes it could be days, weeks or months in between the bumps. It's usually the latter two but it can be really hard to say.
As mentioned in my previous comment, the usual reason why I bump the recruitment thread is "when there are some exciting (this can be subjective, I know) giveaways in the group that may attract new members".
What would SG's policy be in that case? Wouldn't want to have my thread closed a second time due to being ignorant about the rules :P
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FYI: It's not "official" support policy, just my opinion. When we see some new negative trend in the discussions, we bring it up and decide how we want to deal with it.
I like strict rules, as I'm "do x, get y punishment" person. But some things do not work that way :P
It works well in case of multiple wins or inactivated wins. It does not work if we'd try to set rules towards something "fluid", like the way someone speaks, or how they behave while bumping threads.
Inactivated: For every inactivated win you get 5 day suspension. Plus extension if it's another strike. Or permanent if you do not activate x games / break this rule multiple times
Being rude: You get suspended for 12h for every bad word, plus +10% multipler for calling someone onion, and +80% multipler for writing that earth is flat. (??)
1st is clear, as inactivated game = certain suspension.
2st is fluid, as there are many factors that need to be considered, when you issue suspension.
That's why I tend to poke user to stop to do x. If they keep bumping thread even after it was pointed out it's not fine / keep attacking others / keep creating the same ticket over and over again - I issue suspension.
How long does it take for Group Recruitment topic to drop to 1/4 of the sub-category list? - 7 days (more or less). So what's the point in bumping thread every 3 days, when after a week it will still be visible on top of the 1st page? When user wants to look for group to join, they will not miss it. Bumping it every day means it will be always on top.
Some categories have "shorter life". Like bumping frequently puzzle that last for few days is more "ok" for me, than bumping group recruitment or off-topic. As i wrote - it's fluid. So I'd like users to use common sense. Even when I know they hate it, esp when they feel victimized and need to "be in the right".
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Hmm, you've got a point - I actually never thought of it that way since I usually view the discussion section as a whole rather than going into individual "sub-sections"... except maybe Deals because I don't want to miss out on any :P
Alright, I'll take your advice to heart when bumping the group thread, thanks! And in the rare case when my common sense malfunctioned, I'm glad to know that I'll be warned and not suspended outright/have my thread closed again.
Btw, I guess I'm a bit like you as well. The "do x, get y punishment" type of rule does sound a bit more easier to understand and leaves nothing up to chance or debate, but yeah, like you said, not everything can be black and white :)
Thanks a lot for spending the time to answer my question in such detail!
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Just replace the need to spam comments with a bump button that can be pressed once an hour/day/whatever. Currently everyone spams their bumps in the first hour several per minute and then forgets the whole thing, which makes 0 sense for promoting the thread.
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This is a change I would fully support :P But it lies beyond scope of discussing guidelines update.
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This actually reminds me on meta-level can one be punished for hate speech for oneself? As I do have relevant group ;D
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Suggesting an addendum to User Content rule nr. 2, concerning inappropriate content, to extend not only to posts and avatars but also to usernames. Like on many other rules, it is hard to draw a line on where this begins and ends, but not including usernames would be an obvious loophole to the "community-friendly / safe for work" process.
Speaking of the category as a whole, for any user-content rule to be implemented a clear consensus should be established among admin & mods on what exactly should be allowed or not, and this should be clearly listed for users. Inconsistency of application often undermines online communities, giving rise to uncertainty, and feelings of double-standards or lack of freedom of expression. Though it would seem the democratic thing to do, there's no point in polling and common-sense approaches, as there will always be as many different perspectives as users on the site (varying on macro variables like culture to micro ones as individual experience)... it's an admin decision, when designing what the community's purpose should be.
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Avatars need to be appropriate for all ages. If you have a NSFW Steam avatar, please change it prior to using the site.
If you expect to enforce against userpics then they either need to be a site setting or you need an alternative login that doesn't pull that data from Steam. If a userpic is acceptable for Steam and you're using their login system then that userpic is fine, if it isn't then report the user to Valve and let them deal with it.
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+1
I support this option as it sounds reasonable, it reduces SG-workload, and it could be assumed that Valve has a decent policy and enforcement on this.
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Valve has a decent policy and enforcement on this.
Policy sure, but that doesnt help SG if Valve doesnt proactively review pics or review every reported profile in a timely manner (if people even report the NSFW pics)
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My last report (dick pics on user Steam profile page) took around 6 months to be reviewed... so we can't count on Valve ability to moderate their content. They will do it... eventually... after months...
Not to mention all you get as a result is "thanks for your report!". There is no link to profile you reported, message you wrote or anything. So it's not possible to review report to see if anything was done.
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i think must add rule for people can't put in avatar logo of websites or also any things that only for "idea" refer to a website that require to do Task\Pools\Install Software for enter giveaways,and i think is important to stated in this rule that is can't be done also if the logo is Half or 1\10 or 1\4 of the image etc..
Also i think must to add rule for say that profile of steam of people use SG not must have link to shady websites that ask to install software and or do tasks\pools etc. in their steam profile,because i noticed some people not only come here by advertising websites bad with avatar logo but also they put link to their steam profile too to site require install software
Because i noticed that there is a lot of SG rivals that come here advertising other giveaways by put on their steam avatar image that refer to other giveaways logos websites that ask to install shady software and\or do tasks etc.
But because right now is not exist a rule that proibited this so is not possible to report these people and ban them from sg,cant do nothing so they is free to come here only for stolen people to sg instead of the for the purpose of giveaways.
and also i noticed that these people is very rude,they come here do this and then also kidding\make joke of moderators say they is not fast to act or other bad things like this,that in my country is very not respectful to do,it's same if a moron go in a beach put fire at umbrella and then say "ooh firetruck is not fast to turn off fire",what the hell way to act is this,very rude and bad,but they do same with sg come here advertising website ask install bad software and kidding moderators too,this is not aceptable.
sorry bad english but i not care language and not like use translator or fix this,anyway hope you understand mean.
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Gambling. Do not post content or links to gambling related sites
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One statement and one question:
Statement:
Too many guidelines/FAQ's are written in a way that reads ''We'll ban you for this, we'll ban you for that, and if you do this - we'll extra ban you, extra hard, extra fast, and extra everything''...
It makes me really happy to see that even though you are ''tightening up'' things you haven't fallen into that trap, as such guidelines are no fun to read, and absolutely doesn't make you feel welcomed as a new user. So hat's off, really good job on that!
Question:
(If this has been answered above, don't hesitate to tell me so instead of answering again, I didn't read all comments here yet...)
Rule 12 Reselling keys and links to reseller stores. Do not use our site to resell keys, and do not post offers from stores which allow third parties to resell their keys or gifts. For example, do not ask others if they are interested in buying your leftover keys from a recent bundle purchase, or link to keys for sale on sites such as Kinguin, G2A, or Eneba.
I read the above as being addressed to a person/company reselling keys, not towards individuals that have found a great deal somewhere.
I have many times shown a link after seeing a question like ''Where can I find a good deal for game this-or-that'', and I don't think that is what you are targeting with rule 12?
A lot of us have been hoping for better Guidelines, and even though you won't be able to please all of us (site owner/site mod must be the worlds least appreciated job....), I am very happy to see you're having a go at it. I appreciate every single one of you, from CG and all the way to the bot that approves immediate GA-deletions. ;-)
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This rule means that you will not be able to link to those sites at all.
So if you create topic "where can I find cheap KOTOR 3" you can get links to HB, GMG, Fanatical etc. But not to kinguin etc.
Opinion: I believe it's because SG does not want to be source of traffic for those sites.
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Is there any way a list of authorized (aka allowed) sites could be added to the guidelines or elsewhere, for the sake of clarity? I believe it's a safe assumption that not everyone is familiar with what sites fall under the heading "grey market."
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+1, with Kinguin having a crazy weekend topic open, and Gamivo having its own topic I'm also pretty curious (got some nice stuff from Gamivo and it doesn't look like user-trading as G2A or Kinguin, hence some clarification would be welcome)
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Gamivo is market for keys, just like G2A. You can see that this game has more than 1 seller, and more than 1 price here:
https://www.gamivo.com/product/nba-2k20-eu
So yes, gamivo will also be "banned".
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do not post offers from stores which allow third parties to resell their keys or gifts.
We did not want to use "gray market / authorized" word in the rule, as there is no list of such pages. And we'd need to think if site is gray-area-enough every time it would start to pop up in discussions.
That's why we have "allow third parties to resell keys". It covers all sites, where game has more than one price, and is sold by more than one seller.
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Well, I'm asking for a number of reasons --
-
Firstly, HRKgame. Storefront or gray market? They don't host offers from users, but they're affiliated with G2A rather directly.
-
Does this mean threads like the Crazy Free Weekends thread would be against the rules once the guidelines are updated? Or only if it contains a link to the store itself?
-
What about a thread posting a discount code for Gamivo, but not linking to the store itself? This one seems most straightforward of the three, but I figured it worth clarifying.
Edit: By the way, these are just off the top of my head. I'm sure I could come up with more examples.
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Does this mean threads like the Crazy Free Weekends thread would be against the rules once the guidelines are updated?
That's how I took it.
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Same here, but others may not agree. My intent was to show that there a number of grey areas that may require additional consideration as they come up, and that a list might be helpful to avoid some of that confusion.
What sparked this thought was that we're already not allowed to post links to sites that require additional steps to claim a free game, but people find ways around it by saying things like "that site with the shady extension" or simply posting the word "gamehag", etc, and I believe they may simply do the same with these disallowed reseller sites.
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I believe they may simply do the same with these disallowed reseller sites.
Which in a way would be good for the community because this is the most reputable place I can think of to discuss such offers. But it all depends on what SG moderation deems acceptable in the end.
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Question: If a dev sells keys there, and a 3rd party sells (we assume "resells" but have little proof short of setting up an account and trying to do sell something), is it banned?
For example, if Fanatical suddenly allowed you to sell extra unrevealed keys to 3rd parties for prices which are preset by fanatical (a sort of preowned key marketplace), but still sold most of their keys straight from devs, would this site be banned?
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if this gets the leech-center kinguin-thread closed, i'm in :3
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I may be overlooking it, but I don't see any mention of the long-standing site rule wherein users are not allowed to make unfounded accusations towards the legitimacy of a giveaway. Given that staff usually suspends users who violate that rule, you may wanna have that be noted somewhere.
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The phrasing has changed from the current text, but it's still here.
Use the appropriate avenues for support. Submit a ticket with a user report if you believe a user is not following the rules or is causing an issue. This will allow support to resolve the situation, rather than bringing public attention to their behavior which could result in unnecessary arguments between users.
Do you think that's sufficient?
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For covering the bases and addressing the information towards more technical users? Sure.
For making a less-technical, non-English-native, or casually perusing site user aware that the specific behavior in question can potentially lead to them being suspended? Not at all. In fact, even technically-minded users would probably be surprised by the suspension, given the laid-back tone of the section you quoted.
This is along the lines of how I'd personally approach it:
Use the appropriate avenues for support. If you believe another user is not following the rules or is causing an issue, do not confront them on the matter. Instead, submit a user report ticket detailing the matter. This will allow support to resolve the situation without drawing additional public attention to the behavior, which will both help in avoiding unnecessary conflict between users and in making sure no arguments arise due to misinterpretated situations.
The edits to the latter sections are there to more clearly express the site's perspective on things, but the key point is the second sentence, which offers a clear guideline stating that users shouldn't engage one another on such matters, and does so in a straightforward and emphatic manner.
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I see your point. I'll bring this back to our internal discussion. Thanks for the suggestion!
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Thanks for the feedback, I added a new point to cover this...
It is important giveaway creators are always given the benefit of the doubt when giveaways appear too good to be true and, to remain respectful, you do not write comments to question the legitimacy of their giveaways.
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Suggest changing:
Personal attacks or hate speech. Neither threats or harassment is allowed, nor is slurs against race, sexual orientation, or gender.
to
Personal attacks or hate speech. Neither threats nor harassment is allowed, nor are slurs against race, sexual orientation, or gender.
Reason: grammar
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Trading. This site is not for trading, so do not attempt to trade games or other items with users in the community. It is acceptable to discuss the general topic of trading, but it is not allowed to use our site to facilitate actual trades.
Thank you for updating this, but I think it still falls a little short of the guidance we've received. See this thread.
So I'd suggest the following:
Trading. This site is not for trading, so do not attempt to trade games or other items with users in the community. It is acceptable to discuss the general topic of trading, but it is not allowed to use our site to facilitate actual trades. This includes mentioning a willingness to trade.
I still of course heartily disagree with this Guideline, but at this point, it's inert rage. :)
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Thanks for sharing, I took a few minutes to read through the thread.
First off, the goal is to stop people from using our site for trading. I think most users agree with that goal. The debate seems to be whether a user expressing a willingness to trade is considered trading. This is complicated because a user could innocently mention their future plan to trade a bundle without intending to actually trade it in our community. Meanwhile, another user could write the exact same comment as a clever way of seeking out trade offers. We don't want innocent users being suspended, and we don't want users trading in plain sight based on technicalities.
We can't determine a user's intentions based on a single comment. However, if a user is posting a significant number of times about their willingness to trade, I think we can be more confident what they're trying to accomplish. So, maybe the solution is to take into consideration how often these posts are occurring? For example...
This site is not for trading, so do not attempt to directly trade games or other items with users in our community. If you attempt to indirectly trade or express a willingness to trade with an unusually high frequency, it will also be viewed as trading. If you would like to conduct trades, refer to our sister site, SteamTrades.
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I think this is a great change, and strikes a great balance. Clearly, some people who mention a willingness to trade frequently (in bundle theads) are not trying to game the system or find a loophole. And clearly, others are! It's hard to tell if somebody is just being chatty / thinking aloud, or subtly trying to direct people to their trade page and then start rules lawyering saying there's no rule against what they've done. Some of the first category will get admonished and have the rule pointed out, and they'll learn and hopefully ratchet back the trade mentions. And the latter category will have no leg to stand on. Win-win. Thank you for revisiting the issue. :D
Incidentally, I personally don't mind people mentioning an intention to trade as much as they want (or saying "innocuous" things like I cited in my post) as long as they're not spamming or hitting me over the head with it (links to trade pages, UNICODE character graphics, etc.). I think this only came up because of the explosion of bundle threads (where such comments are commonplace, and IMO normal) and moderator PTSD from other site phenomena that, while once manageable, got out of control.
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Are "mystery bundles" and their threads covered by the gambling rule?
If not, I'd like to suggest to explicitly add those, since they are a kind of gambling.
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In certain countries, some loot boxes were deemed to be in violation of gambling laws though
https://www.pcgamer.com/the-legal-status-of-loot-boxes-around-the-world-and-whats-next/
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When someone got a sub-1$ game from a 1$ mystery game purchase that is an objective loss of money, not even arbitrary 'game value'. (Unsure which Fanatical bundle was that one, but that one is literally gambling)
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There was an idea to ban loot boxes, but majority of discussions are focused on writing which games are inside those boxes. So we'd need to ban all those discussions, which would prevent users from knowing which games are available there. And it is useful information after all.
That's why it was decided that we will ban gambling sites (so for example betting your CS:GO skins to win something), but not mystery boxes.
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nice to hear that there was a discussion about it and the result sounds reasonable. Thanks for letting me/us know.
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I suggest replacing
Beta keys which do not provide unrestricted access to the full game in the future, guest passes, demos, and coupons cannot be given away.
with something like
Anything which does not provide unrestricted access to the full game in the future cannot be given away. This includes for example: alpha keys, beta keys, guest passes, demos, and coupons.
Being split into two sentences makes it a little easier to read, and might help people who don't have English as a first language.
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or even
Beta keys (if they do not provide unrestricted access to the full game in the future), guest passes, demos, and coupons cannot be given away.
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i laughed at not allowed "Personal attacks or hate speech. Neither threats or harassment is allowed, nor is slurs against race, sexual orientation, or gender."
when literally a week or so ago some guy was allowed to bash women drivers and kept on calling them names and putting them down for gender, and saying they shouldnt be allowed to drive and blah blah, he was allowed to keep the thread open for like 350 comments. for like a week or more, and he belittled anyone who didnt agree with him
no one seemed to care about protecting anyone from personal attacks for all that time.
i will forever remember that guys sexist remarks and that he was allowed to keep harassing the other gender non-stop for so long. and even a few mods were commenting in the comments and not doing anything about it lol i shall always remember that low point in history
the guy never even got a suspension for it. which i bookmarked him from the first hour he posted the thread cuz i was waiting to see the suspended hit him lol
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I don't see how that rule would forbid what he said.
There wasn't a slur and being prejudicial isn't hate speech, nor are generalizations threats or harassment.
Just because it was dumb doesn't mean the rule covers it.
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for like a week or more
It was open for 3 days.
the guy never even got a suspension for it.
That's not true. You just had to not check profile when it was active.
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you are 100% right on both. i exagerated a bunch lol but im sure ill still always remember it lol
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Use the appropriate avenues for support. Submit a ticket with a user report if you believe a user is not following the rules or is causing an issue. This will allow support to resolve the situation, rather than bringing public attention to their behavior which could result in unnecessary arguments between users.
When we see a user blatantly breaking a rule, are we not allowed to inform them of the rule and provide a link to the guidelines?
There are a lot of new users who who do not know the rules and break them without realizing. When this happens, a user can simply point out the rule and provide a link to the guidelines. This gives the user the ability to fix the situation without receiving a suspension for an honest mistake. This will usually resolve the situation much faster than waiting for support, which is good. The infraction is on the site for less time, so less users will see it, and it creates less work for support.
Having to report users for breaking rules instead of just mentioning it in the thread is going to cause a massive influx of user reports because nobody knows if someone else reported it. I think this use to happen a lot when users gave away free games before it was allowed or regifted games that they just won from a mass SG giveaway. Nobody can do anything but report it and depending on how quick support reacts, there could be a massive number of users all reporting the same thing.
Some examples of situations that I have seen in the past where it is simple to just explain the rule and link to the guidelines are: a user saying right in the giveaway description that they are giving a uplay key, asking for whitelists, making requirements in the giveaway description for an entry to count, asking for donations, posting gleam links with certain requirements.
I think communities that moderate themselves are a good thing. If a debate starts in the comments about whether or not a rule has been broken, I think that is good as well. That means that the rule is not clear. A support member can clear things up and then all the users involved in the discussion will have a better understand of the rule instead of everything happening in secret and nobody learning anything.
If the rules are not clear and we are not allowed to talk about the rules, we end up in the situation we are in now where everyone has a different opinion on what is allowed and users feel like they are getting suspended for unjust reasons or treated unfairly.
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This gives the user the ability to fix the situation without receiving a suspension for an honest mistake. This will usually resolve the situation much faster than waiting for support, which is good. The infraction is on the site for less time, so less users will see it, and it creates less work for support.
Agree that with inexperienced users I've seen rule explanations help much more than support tickets and punishment. Punishment will just make people not return to the site, whereas a quick rule pointer by a peer is a helpful way of swiftly resolving something so that no bureaucracy becomes necessary.
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Good guidelines but you forgot one thing, spammers on old topics.
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I have not read the whole discussion, so this might have already been adressed.
Advertising Steam games, [...] is not allowed for users associated with the game. What about advertising for non Steam games? Is there a difference between high tier distribution platforms (Steam, Uplay, Epic, ...) and small ones (Itch,...)?
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Here are some comments. Note that I haven't read other people's responses.
I'd rather have a 'Community Guidelines' (or Forum Guidelines or whatever) section, rather than 'User Content', which to me is 'legalese' and not really clear.
Edit: Or perhaps 'Disallowed User Content' is a better title, to clarify what the section is about. Or 'What Not to Post', or some such.
When you disagree with a user in the community, do your best to explain your viewpoint rather than attacking the individual.
I think that should belong in the User Content section. I understand its importance, and it could be put as a first thing there, but I don't think its place is in 'general'.
You cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid.
There needs to be a discussion of external gateways to private giveaways. This isn't currently addressed in the guidelines and is an important part of SG. Users obviously can be asked to pass an SGtools test or solve a puzzle at itstoohard in order to get to a private giveaway. The guidelines should address what is a legitimate gateway. Can people for example reward their Patreon members by posting giveaways links available only to those members? To me this sounds legitimate, but others might think it's not. Even if any gateway is allowed, this should be specifically mentioned.
Whitelist recruitment. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you.
Except under the relevant forum posts. If someone is looking for people to be added to their whitelist, I think it can be expected that people will ask to be on that whitelist.
Advertising
When people are developing games, and not yet selling them, I think it should be legitimate to post about them. Or if a member of the community has released a new game for free. If you want to stop general spamming, it might be okay to put some conditions on it (member of the community needs to have been registered for a certain time and participated in some other discussions), but personally I enjoy it when devs participate in a gaming community.
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I tried to clarify that third party tools are allowed for puzzles and restrictions.
Before
You cannot ask users to perform any special action in order for their entry to be considered valid, such as liking a Facebook page, or following a Twitter account.
After
If a user has access to your giveaway they are free to enter and their entry will always be considered valid. Use the available group or whitelist options if you would like to add restrictions to your giveaway, or create an invite only giveaway and distribute the link either manually or with the help of third party tools to those that meet your requirements.
Except under the relevant forum posts. If someone is looking for people to be added to their whitelist, I think it can be expected that people will ask to be on that whitelist.
That's true, I made the below change...
Before
Whitelist recruitment. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you.
After
Whitelist recruitment. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you, unless they are explicitly asking or searching for such users and you fulfill their requirements.
As for advertising, I'm trying to adjust that section because I would like to see more developer participation as well.
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Donations
I'd prefer that support for others is allowed. I'd put Patreon under advertising, but I do want SG to be a place where people can feel like they can ask for help and discuss bad things that happen in their lives. This is similar to my comment about advertising. I don't want to block good things just to make sure that some bad things don't happen. I do want developers engaging with the community, and I do want people to feel that this is a supportive place for real life things which are important to them.
As I said about devs above, it's possible to take this on a case by case basis, or qualify such posts to allow them only from users who otherwise contribute to the forum. I just don't like the idea that certain types of posts are blocked just because people are worried that people will misuse them.
General order under "User Content"
Some of the entries relate to certain topics, such as ways of making money from the forum. I think that referral links, reselling, collecting money etc. should be grouped together. They are basically all just examples of "don't make money directly from posts".
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Whitelist recruitment. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you.
Except under the relevant forum posts. If someone is looking for people to be added to their whitelist, I think it can be expected that people will ask to be in that whitelist.
I'd prefer that support for others is allowed. I'd put Patreon under advertising, but I do want SG to be a place where people can feel like the can ask for help and discuss bad things that happen in their lives. This is similar to my comment about advertising. I don't want to block good things just to make sure that some bad things don't happen. I do want developers engaging with the community, and I do want people to feel that this is a supportive place for real life things which are important to them.
As I said about devs above, it's possible to take this on a case by case basis, or qualify such posts to allow them only from users who otherwise contribute to the forum. I just don't like the idea that certain types of posts are blocked just because people are worried that people will misuse them.
I agree wholeheartedly.
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Somewhere else I also suggested it - game promotion event (goblin and coins), or other dev-community should be allowed but only through support. Like opening a ticket that from X to Z there would be an event, this topic, this reward, and if it's sensible and beneficial, then it is allowed to be ran. The troublemakers won't do the work for it / will be denied.
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When we will base agreement to post ads / donations on SG based on support decision, how are we gonna reject accusations of being biased? And "for the friends"?
NB264 (they already posted in this thread) - yes, everyone knows them and like, can advertise games.
Some users that started to use site 6 months ago - nah, I don't know you, will not agree for you to advertise your game.
It would divide community between "old known people that know support members" and "new users that don't have enough power to break through". Plus we already have a lot of drama around, that support is biased and targeted towards certain users.
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I personally thought that they need to make a layout/plan for the event, and the idea will get accepted, and no changr compared to the accepted points are allowed. Though there really weren't around too many of these events to begin with.
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The you can have guidelines that don't completely block such content but prevent abuse. For example, a user can advertise a game only once every quarter. Or people can ask for donations for someone else once a year at most. You can qualify this further by, for example, 'a dev can only advertise a release Steam game after gifting a certain number of copies' or 'a person can ask for a donation only if they have been registered for x months and have posted at least y times on the forum'.
You don't have the advertise the exact criteria, just say that something is allowed in a limited manner but not encouraged, so if someone steps over the line you could warn them and then police them.
I'm sure that in the end there will always be accusations of bias, and you'll have to deal with them, but I still think that it's better to leave some things open to abuse and police them if necessary, rather than disallow them up front.
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I don't know exactly what's going on with ST so I can only give my opinion on things. Support has already be removed from Steamtrades so I don't believe we will be doing anything with that anymore. TBH I'm kind of surprised we haven't distanced SG further from it by removing the Steam trades button from SG and vice versa.
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Many bots and many users using more than 1 accounts. I got 3 -reps from one person because I told him that using many accounts is illegal on site xD
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Bump with link to a few still-unanswered questions which I have for clarity's sake, coupled with a few thoughts (note that answered parts have been struckthrough or removed) https://www.steamgifts.com/go/comment/DKwTrRV
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Some posts here made me realise that although this list is titled 'guidelines', what's in it is treated as rules. That is, it's not just what we would like to happen and moderators might look for and delete, but something that is punishable if not strictly followed.
I think that this should be made clear, and it should also be made clear what punishments can happen.
If, for example, you say "If you have a NSFW Steam avatar, please change it prior to using the site", what would happen if the user doesn't change the avatar?
Is there a difference between a rule phrased as "please", one phrased as "must" and one which isn't specifically mentioned as a must? Are some rules more important than others? Do some rules result in harsher punishments? This isn't addressed at all.
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Some of the older groups on SteamGifts have their own website. Which they use for keeping track of ratio, group management and others group related activities. In general these sites are non monetary focused and have a strong focus on SteamGifts.
As moderators are not allowing groups that have their own website to post a link to it (even in the recruitment forum), please change the rule below.
"Promoting your Steam group can only be done in the "Group Recruitment" category. One of the primary components of your group needs to be SteamGifts, or gifting using our platform."
Please add to the above rule:
"Promoting your Steam group and group website can only be done in the "Group Recruitment" category. One of the primary components of your group needs to be SteamGifts, or gifting using our platform."
Note that these groups don't always have their steam group page as their primary medium. This have been taken over by the website. So please allow direct linking to the website.
Example to help show what kind of website we are talking about:
http://www.bundlequest.com
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It is covered in the following part of the guidelines:
Products or services can be advertised if they are add-ons, extensions, or tools for either Steam or SteamGifts. If you are promoting your Steam group in the "Group Recruitment" category, or if you are managing a giveaway event, you are also allowed to link to relevant products or services.
The site would be considered a relevant service.
You can read cg's comment regarding these companion sites here.
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What's the point in changing the rules to be more clear if people still have to go hunt for mod/cg comments to be sure what's ok and what's not? :)
Adding a simple change to that sentence won't do any harm, if it's already allowed anyway.
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I think its clear enough that websites for groups are essentially "add-ons, extensions, or tools for either Steam or SteamGifts" which "are also allowed" when "promoting your Steam group in the 'Group Recruitment' category".
Same thing with another guideline wherein a group's web site typically has SG/gifting as a primary component of the site:
Promoting your Steam group can only be done in the "Group Recruitment" category. One of the primary components of your group needs to be SteamGifts, or gifting using our platform.
That's seems a lot more clear than current guidelines regarding posting links which were vague enough to open the door to what Dyna18 pointed out with mods not allowing groups to post links to their own sites.
I think cg's further comments about associated links/ads are a simple logical interpretation of parts of the new guidelines.
Given multiple logical paths to group sites being allowed, I don't think its very beneficial to add to the already elaborate new guidelines.
Is there something else I'm missing here?
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It's nice to see some guidelines finally. Hopefully it's not too late and SG can start to welcome new and old folk in a way that will make them feel like part of a community this place once thrived upon.
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Inappropriate use of comment formatting.
nothing about all-lowercase comments so i'm safe. 😎
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Thank you for working on updates regarding rules and guide lines.
I do have criticizam when it comes to support tickets, I am waiting for 2 of support tickets now soon to be 6 months to be resolved.
Long ago before v2 of steamgifts I also had like 12 of reports that aged for 1 year without being resolved so I closed them, this time I am waiting for these 2 reports but again it is going for 5 months and I have seen some people user reports who complained by creating discussion got theirs resolved even tho they posted in same category after my report was submited, I didn't said anything that time and also I don't want to create discussion thread complaining about it, but considering this thread is a bit relevent to it, I decided to post it here, I would really appreacite if someone could take a look at my support tickets. Thanks again CG for all your work.
Edit: well seems like even complaining doesn't work, probably will have to wait few years for tickets to be resolved...
In post we are asked for patience, well isnt 6 months of patience more than enough? And as I said before these on v1 sg, I closed so many reports after them not being resolved for over year, I will not close these 2, I want someone to take a look at them. Thanks
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pfff... that's nothing. I got one support ticket waiting for over 4 years now.
https://www.steamgifts.com/support/ticket/4SmGT/
(joking aside, these long tickets should indeed be properly taken care off (and not just closed because they are old)).
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Hi everyone,
We've been working on new guidelines for SteamGifts to help clarify some questions raised by the community, and to help users better understand what type of content is allowed and not allowed on the site. I'm sharing the proposed guidelines below so the community can read them over, ask questions, and provide feedback that can be taken into consideration before the new guidelines are put in place. I would like to leave this discussion open for 10 days for review, and then have the official guidelines go live with any revisions.
I imagine people will have different viewpoints on a number of guidelines, neither of which are right or wrong, so please try to be considerate and constructive when commenting. Thanks!
General
Giveaways
Creating
Entering
Winning
User Content
The below is a list of content that is not allowed in our community. Content consists of any material you post or make available through our site, such as discussions, links, comments, usernames, or Steam avatars.
Illegal content. For example, sharing links to pirated content, or to services that assist in illegal activity, such as torrent websites.
Inappropriate content. If you are posting content that may be considered NSFW (not safe for work), prefix any links or images with a NSFW tag to warn others. Do not post pornography, or explicit content, such as real life images depicting severe injury, gore, or death.
Unsafe content. Products or services that are not credible or potentially dangerous, such as those that could lead to a user's Steam account being compromised, or their financial information stolen. Please do your due diligence prior to posting content or links, and if we have concerns about the safety of a product or service, we will try to remove it from our site or close the offending discussion.
Personal attacks or hate speech. Threats or harassment is not allowed, neither are slurs against race, sexual orientation, or gender.
Referral links. If you choose to post a link, please be sure all referral codes have been removed. For example, by changing http://www.example.com?ref=12345 to http://www.example.com. Also, do not attempt to circumvent this rule by adding referral links through intermediary processes as users try to reach their intended destination.
Spam. Do not repeatedly post content to increase visibility. This also includes creating multiple discussions for content that could be more appropriately consolidated into a single discussion.
Private or identifying information. Users in the community have a right to privacy. Do not post their private or identifying information without their consent. For example, their name, address, phone number, photos, or private messages.
URL shortening. When posting links, make sure you are not using URL shorteners as they obscure the destination of links and make it difficult for users to know what they are clicking.
Inappropriate use of comment formatting. The intended use of comment formatting is to improve the readability of your posts. An inappropriate use of formatting would be writing all of your content with headings, or using all caps for your comments.
Untagged spoilers. Refer to our instructions on comment formatting for learning how to add spoilers to your content. A spoiler is content that reveals important plot elements of games, movies, tv series, or other types of fiction released in recent years.
Unreasonable bumping. When bumping a discussion you should try to ensure it is in the best interest of the community. If you notice our community is not engaging with the content after it has been bumped a couple of times, then you need to stop bumping the discussion unless important new information or updates would make it appropriate to do so.
Begging. Do not ask game developers or users for keys or games, unless they are offering and searching for interested parties.
Trading. This site is not for trading, so do not attempt to directly trade games or other items with users in our community. If you attempt to indirectly trade or express a willingness to trade with an unusually high frequency, it will also be viewed as trading. If you would like to conduct trades, refer to our sister site, SteamTrades.
Reselling keys and links to reseller stores. Do not use our site to resell keys, and do not post offers from stores which allow third parties to resell their keys or gifts. For example, do not ask others if they are interested in buying your leftover keys from a recent bundle purchase, or link to keys for sale on sites such as Kinguin, G2A, or Eneba.
Collecting money, items, or games for giveaways, lotteries, or group access. For example, asking users to donate a few dollars, with the promise of giving away a valuable game once adequate funds have been raised. Or, asking users to personally send you games and items for an event. Or, requiring users to send you annual fees to participate in your Steam group.
Third party giveaways that require or reward users for performing profitable actions. For example, linking to a giveaway on another service that requires or incentivizes users to click a referral link, like a Facebook page, follow a Twitter account, join a Steam group, complete a survey, sign-up for a newsletter, or make a donation.
Gambling. Do not post content or links to gambling related sites, such as those to bet on the outcome of gaming matches, or those that collect money or items for a chance to win a prize.
Whitelist solicitation. Do not ask or hint for other users to whitelist you, unless they are explicitly asking or searching for such users and you fulfill their requirements.
Advertising
Advertising is when you are promoting products or services you are associated with, or when you are posting content that is paid or sponsored. Directly naming or linking to an associated product or service will always be viewed as advertising. General references (e.g. referring to your "website", "YouTube channel", or "Steam group") may also be viewed as advertising when we believe their purpose is to bring attention to an associated product or service for publicity or sales. Below is a breakdown of when advertising is allowed in our community. Remember, the above rules regarding user content still apply. For example, we might allow you to advertise in giveaway descriptions, but that does not permit you to post referral links or link to your website with illegal content.
Giveaways
When creating a giveaway you are able to write a description. In this space you are welcome to advertise your products or services, including social media channels (e.g. Facebook, YouTube, Instagram, and Twitter), games, groups, curators, or other giveaways.
Discussions
Our forum allows you to create discussions for engaging in conversation with our community. In these discussions you are able to promote your SteamGifts giveaways, but only when there is a greater reason for the discussion, such as including the giveaways in part of an event, puzzle, cake day, or milestone. For category specific advertising, please refer to the below.
Add-ons / Tools
Game Showcase
Group Recruitment
User Projects
Comments
This refers to comments throughout our site, such as those contained within giveaways or discussions. You are able to advertise in your comments, but only when it is both relevant and valuable to the conversation. For example, if a user is searching for a giveaway group only available to users that have not yet won a game, and you are the owner of such a group, it would be appropriate to post a link to your Steam group. Or, if a user is searching for new strategy games, and you have a Steam curator page highlighting your recommendations from that genre, you could share a link since it would be helpful to those reading.
Support
Chat
Changes based on community feedback below.
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Rethinking this section a bit. Similar to the above, the community events aspect might be better covered in revised advertising guidelines.
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