Wow. Didn't believe the actual numbers were that high. I'm glad actions were taken!
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I see that most people expected the opposite :D. I don't know, but to me it's a big number, hopefully they'll change their behavior or they'll be banned with further infractions, so that we have a level plain field
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High? Compared to 30k giveaways that are happening on usual basis, that's maybe 5% at best, most likely 2-3% of active userbase. I wouldn't call that "high".
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I was more surprised that the number of users that chose to completely ignore the ongoing discussion about the use of the auto-join scripts including previous statements by cg was still that high. Probably never read the forum.....
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keep in mind that it used to be much higher. Easy SteamGifts had at least 6k users, it was most popular autojoiner, guess a lot of autojoiners simply stopped only when ESG got discontinued few months ago.
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Not any more, since the official group on Steam pretty much went silent. But there were over 10k users of the Chrome version alone.
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this does not mean active users, contrary, vast majority of people who some time in the past created SG account are no longer active ;p I'd argue that we probably have anywhere betwqeen 30 and 60k active users at most ;p
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I am almost sure cg got those as well. Especially since in the AutoJoin group, the guy complaining says he had it set to human-like behaviour. So either he was really terrible at it or the number of users really dropped this much.
I mean, I know they dropped, I met a lot less bots in the past half year, but I am having a difficult time believing that really almost 90% left/stopped using it since the first round of suspensions.
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if cg has certain triggers present it's really easy to catch such people. Because even if you set random timers thing is script is usually just sending a request. So for example, someone can tweak their scrip how much they want, but cg can just check trigger if they loaded actual GA site, if they didn't they used the script. Ofc someone can make script loading whole site, but the github code of currently used script tell me they don't so vast majority of less tech savvy users will get caught.
Another thing is timestamps examination - even at my most dedicated times I still had to sleep, I could maybe cover 16hrs/day with some skips manually while working from home. Someone joining all day long, 24/7, few days straight is either a bot or shared account and both are against the rules.
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Good! It's just unfortunate that this came about a week after I had to give a game to one of them. I'm glad it was finally done though.
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needed to suspend 1,614 users today
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Now I have to reroll a few of my ended giveaways. I suspect that my reroll tickets might need to wait a little bit longer than usual.. :O
Btw, good job cg :D
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Nice :) Even if that wont hit them hard.. i hope the next time the offenders wont get away so easy ^^
keep up the good work!
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I guess most haven't even noticed it yet but keep an eye on this group for a good laugh :D
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Looks like this is the problem:
or scripts that enter giveaways while you are away (e.g. "AutoJoin for SteamGifts")
Any ideas how to bypass this?
Well, obviously they don't learn
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Wow, whoever wrote that has absolutely no consideration of the fact that they're breaking rules...simply looking for more ways to circumvent the system and win more bundle games.
Blacklist fodder
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3,210 Members
CG needs to increase the blacklist limit.
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lol what! it was 3210 7 hours ago?
it is 3106 now, I guess people are leaving the group...
Anyway, Chrome store add-on has more than 17500 users, that might give you a better idea about the actual number of people using it...
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I now see 3,213 at the members tab. 3,106 is shown on the overview tab.
Seems it actually increased by 3.
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Blacklisting people based on the groups they joined is actually equally pathetic to people asking how to bypass SG suspensions.
I could've joined that group right now and not even know what the script is about, just because it has SteamGifts in its name, so definitely somebody is creating giveaways for it there. You could start checking all your "blacklist fodder" in that group only to find out that your logic is entirely flawed since those people didn't get any suspension.
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Don't worry, I wouldn't blacklist somebody just for being in the SG AutoJoin group, for the reasons you indicate. But there is still plenty of BL fodder in the group, IMO. I think you're making a logical leap to assume I would categorically blacklist them all. Also, the suspension is only based on the past week's activity. Not being suspended =/= doesn't use autojoiners.
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Nope, but checking group member list lets you easily find lots of users that currently have same suspension length ;) and blacklisting based on that od whole different story ;)
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I don't think they are all doing that? If I remember correctly, there is an option in the script to disable the autojoin feature? And just because someone is in that group it doesn't mean that they are doing it.
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I was referring specifically to that one user, but my comment could stand some clarification. Edited.
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Interesting.
I actually created a wrong giveaway (missclicked on game selection & didn't noticed) and am currently waiting on one of the winners to react to my messages (one on his profile + added him & told him to write something: that he either marks it as not received or is okay with a deletion). Funny enough, he is in this group.
Going to wait for the one week to end, will then create the ticket for deletion.
Those autojoin scripts, do they notify you somehow special, if you won a giveaway and the creator sent you the key/link via steamgifts? Could try to edit the key on the last day to something like "AREYO-UAAUT-OJOIN" and see if he then reacts.
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I think its not tied to a key / giftlink being added but sadly cg implemented optional E-mail Notifications when you win a game a while ago.
I was strongly against it since the only group of users it actually helps are autojoiners since normal users who enter giveaways the legit way will be notified about their wins on the site anyway.
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Hmm okay. Thanks, will try to see anyhow the reaction :D
I can understand your point and think you are right, but I think it is a bad side effect, not
only group of users it actually helps
I think it also helps e.g. users, who use this side not regularly (every 1-2 weeks) or are knew here
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Any ideas how to bypass this?
So early and already looking for solutions
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Oh well, it seems it's been around for quite a while, I've just seen it with your link somehow...
Funny thing is I checked a few people who has messages in that group and damn that thing seems to be working!
They all have hundreds of wins... Some have like 2 giveaways 200+ wins profiles....
Btw a lot of them, who had posts about the script in the discussion are not suspended.
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Amazed by still seeing creator and others openly saying they use it still around here
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Thank you for making me aware of this group. Had a read in their forums and holy cow! What really angers me is that many of the guys now caught were able to rack up between 300-500 wins. That is really a shame.
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Indeed. While at the same time complaining that "all I got out of (it) was complete garbage."
It's hilarious and sad at the same time.
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from what I read, some tend to just leave SG, which is equally to getting perma suspended (at least if they don't change their mind and come back)
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Yeah, I've seen a few comments along those lines but to be honest I won't entirely believe it until I see it.
But if manually entering GAs is such a huge deal for them and they actually leave I bid them farewell and wish them the best of luck on their future endeavours.
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I take an educated guess that you're not sad and in need of comforting to see them gone. ^^
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:D Naw, I'm good. I'm just curious what that terrible site structure that basically forces them to use autojoin is because other than a native autojoin function directly from SG itself I don't know how the site could be easier to use. For me it's more of an issue to find GAs that peak my interest (since I mostly enter public gibs because searching the forum would take too much time) than entering them.
But I won't pay too much thought to that because its sounds an awful lot like empty excuses.
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Who knows what does make them tick in their imaginary, cheating world. :X
I'll hold on to the box of tissues that I would have given to you, now I heard you don't need them. ;-)
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That's mighty kind of you. I might need them the next time I get blacklisted by a Holocaust denier for discussing movies :D
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It's a pleasure and for those things I can provide disinfectant cleaning tissues. :-)
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You should donate some to my local electronic market :D I tried Playstation VR today and am still worried I'll get pinkeye.
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That's sounds more like you need broad-spectrum antibiotics and disinfectant eye drops. :D
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Don't freak me out even more! Naw, I'm sure it will be ok but is it just me or isn't it common sense to put some kind of desinfectant next to an exibtion VR headset ?
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Better be safe then sorry I guess like for example when you use a pump in a petrol station. In Belgium there are now in the last few months 550 000 people who got the flu, most of them got it through indirect contact and Specialists predict even more cases to come.
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Please tell me that is not a thing that actually happened o.o
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From 59 to 60. Well, technically it's possible somebody saw one of my old comments they didn't like but it was the only conversation I had on SG on that day so I'm virtually certain it was about that.
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How did the admins go about separating these users?
If I hypothetically go down page one clicking on every GA, using let's say a one-click script, could that potentially get me marked as an autojoin script users
Or is there more to it than that?
Also 1,614 less users for compete with for the time being. Woo!
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Don't know how exactly they check for them but CG mentioned that ESGST is fine. Comment about ESGST. Only automated scripts are forbidden:
Scripts should not be used to automatically enter into giveaways. This includes scripts that enter multiple giveaways at once, or scripts that enter giveaways while you are away.
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Well that's good.
I mean I would never hypothetically use an autojoiner anyways because I wouldn't want to end up with a bunch of random shite I didn't want.
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I use my own script for a long time for that. I'm sure it won't trigger a false alert because of the way how my script (or ESGST, probably works same way too) and auto join scripts work.
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Just a random note: considering suspensions are already saved, together with when they happened and for how long, it should be cost-free for the database, so totally +1.
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+2, but i dont think it will happen. Stats represent positive and neutral data only ( for example no stats on how many users stopped visiting site or even daily visits), so i guess it wouldnt show either. However it can be seen as positive data - showing users support is actually working for example ;p
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Wow, over 1600! O_o That's a whole lot of people who can't read!
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we are fully behind this - keep it up with the great work cg and the team!
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I thought there would be way more. I wonder how many of them are owned by the same person.
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somehow i imagined that autojoiners are (or were) more than a thousand.
now, I'd like to know how many bots are there around scanning for key drops...
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Extended Steamgifts should be fine. As far as I know it only gives you an enter button but it doesn't enter multiple giveaways or enter giveaways while you are away.
Scripts should not be used to automatically enter into giveaways. This includes scripts that enter multiple giveaways at once, or scripts that enter giveaways while you are away.
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I understand that you can't just permanently suspend everyone you caught using autojoining scripts right now, but I fear that those "warning suspensions" will only encourage those people to make their scripts harder to detect. There may be a few, who simply didn't get it, but I'm pretty sure that most people using those scripts know exactly what they're doing. And they also know it's very hard to detect. Consequently they won't stop. They will just improve their scripts. People generally don't change ... at least not for the better.
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+1
Just look at the Autojoin group. They're already looking for ways to avoid detection.
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Reading comments there makes me want to hit people in the face with a purple dildo bat.
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But what's the alternative? Don't do anything about it?
If you only wanted to point out that noone should think of SG as "botless" now, don't mind the question.
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No, of course something needs to be done about it. But again, warning shots only encourage them to hide their scripts better. Perhaps another post/reminder that scripts are forbidden and a week later permanent suspensions for all of them. There's no ideal solution. What I was trying to say: I have mixed feelings on how this was done. On the one hand, doing something is better than nothing at all. On the other hand, being too lax might just make it worse.
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People actually do change - staff member in the past said for example that almost everyone (high 9X%) suspended for non activation never get suspended again, only small minority continue to break rules after 1st suspension.
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That's new info to me
I must stop my try to create the SG inquisition then
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Okay, they changed their behavior only because they got caught. Also, with non activation, they have no influence on whether they get caught or not. So the two aren't entirely comparable.
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no matter the reason they changed they behavior, what matters is they did. why do any legal systems and punishemnts exist? to make people follow desired behovior. if short suspensions make people follow rules they are working as intended, no need to permaban someone who is not going to break rules any more, yet possibly may later on become valuable member of the community.
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And yet again, you can't really compare the two, as scripts are very hard to detect and the ones using them can improve them to make it even harder. That's where legal systems and punishments in the real world also tend to fail, when risk of detection is low and the rewards are high. I only hope you're right and that least some of them will change their behavior because they deem it too risky. I remain doubtful though, because as Sundance85 commented above, when I peeked into the discussions of that pesky autojoiner group their only concern seemed to be how to make their script less detectable.
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no matter, same as preventive harsh punishments based solely on fact that 'it may be harder to detect' are not present in modern western world and are usually symbol of totalitarian or at least authoritarian regime, same here it shouldn't be like that. Punishment should be a way of education and improving your society as well as specific individuals, not a way of getting rid of any person that does not fit, first you try to change, only if it fails you go for drastic methods of total exclusion. Even if something is harder to detect that alone is not a basis good enough to justify the harshest punishment as a preventive method. To put it into real world context - cybercrime has low detection rate because of existence of all kinds of anonimity software, it's easier to catch real life thief than it is to catch online thief, yet we do not have capital punishment for hackers simply because 'detection is low and rewards are high'. Having capital punishment for comparable crime simply because it's harder to detect would be morally wrong.
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Hi SG,
You might remember that 5 months ago we had a discussion about scripts and add-ons used to automatically join giveaways, and how they are against the rules.
Unfortunately, a large number of users continued to use those scripts, and we needed to suspend 1,614 users today. The suspensions are based on activity from the past week. For now, those users have received a short suspension as a reminder to disable their scripts. However, future suspensions will be more severe, or permanent.
Hopefully this will help to keep the community fair for everyone. Enjoy your week!
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