So, what's the point of this thread? I'm only reading "I'm blacklisting, I'm whitelisting, I don't like people who wins, I want to win more, look at me: I have so many games". Huh?
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I agree it feels more like a "status" rather than a discussion.I think he is venting about how he thinks SG should be managed from a gifter perspective.In a way I think it's good to encourage people to gift more and maybe find a way to convince people to show more common decency(saying thanks,giving away from time to time copies of a game that they would have otherwise traded,maybe sell the trading cards they farm and buy the cheapest game they could find).
The only problem is that well it makes the community feel more like a trading website platform rather than a gifting one.
TL:DR:I have no idea either and somehow I managed to deviate from your question.
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Hello users. Look at your winners. Now back to me. Now back to your winners now back to me. Sadly, they aren't me. But if they stopped siphoning up all the giveaways and started buying Bundles, they could look like they're me.
Look down. Back up. Where are you? You're on a site with leechers who could be like me. What is in your hand? Look at me. I have it. It's a whitelist ticket for one. Look again. The ticket is now a giveaway. Anything is possible when your user looks like me and not like a leecher.
I'm on a high horse.
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If user is here only to win games - which mean the user has got more winning here, then given games - then is also added to BL
You've come to the wrong site, what you're looking for is https://www.steamtrades.com/
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No, there are user here, which have numbers grater than yours. You almost have 1:1 with win & lost.
Most of the user BL on this way have at least 2:1 ratio, some have given none of the games to get hundreds, or a few games to get hundreds. & this is the only way to fight BOTs & "Group BOTs" users.
But you're free not to do so & give games only to the ones who are sucking up this site down. ;)
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YOU are sucking this site down. Gifting is something you do without reward. If you require something back - be it written gratitude, or giveaways - it's not gifting, it's trading. And for trading you have https://www.steamtrades.com/. And that reminds me, that you are also violate the rules on https://www.steamtrades.com/ , making troubles to legit users by your invalid REP. Wherever you go, you spoil everything. If you don't like what's happening on SG - maybe you should better leave this place, instead of trying to change it to your standards?
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There are more reasons to blacklist someone on SG:
- User not thanked
- User thanked not enough
- User thanked ok
- User thanked too much
and, of course - For no reason
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For any reason
FTFY. Also blacklisted myself so you don't need to bother, so you'll have time for dealing with people who blacklist your for not blacklisting me yourself.
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Just to be sure if I've understood you correctly: are you calling someone out in the linked discussion? Sorry, can't view it, apparently I've already got you on my BL.
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There is a guy telling him to stop "-rep" on steamtrade because his winners don't comment "thank you" after winning.
He is complaining about how mods are not doing anything to stop collectors and whatever.He says he is still reviewing his winners so I think he associates steamtrades with steamgifts or he has no other way of "punishing" people for not saying thank you
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Childish understanding of the World...as if good ones don't act, evil will prevail in the World. ;)
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Is so evil when they don't say "thank you". Poor ego, so much suffering.
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Not saying " thank you" is a minor rudeness, not an evil act. You are just being petty.
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The ones unfortunate enough to buy the games are thankful.
Others, are just "rude leaches". ;)
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It's not even a minor rudeness to some of us.
I really couldn't give a shit if someone says thanks in a giveaway. If they do, great. If they don't, whoop-dee-doo.
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In Mr. I'm-better-than-you little world, this is a serious offence
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if good ones don't act, evil will prevail in the World
I very much agree with that, but I'd go for bigger fights like privacy or climate/environmental issues rather than mildly rude people. Can't fix the whole world at once, and we're about to be roasted and getting spied on 24/7 👀
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I get that you blacklist people but why do you leave them negative reps on steamtrades? Gifting and winning here has nothing to do with trading.
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To drown their reputation upon traders, also. As BL was too mild punishment. ;)
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That's kind of dishonest. Their steamtrades account has nothing at all to do with steamgifts. I have met rude people on this site too, but I would not go to a different site and neg rep them. When you do that, you are making people think that you had a bad trade with them.
You're very much entitled to blacklist whoever you want, but I don't agree with neg repping on ST. lol.
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Not just dishonest, it's outright against ST rules.
Trade feedback should only be used to describe your personal trading experience with a user. It should not be used (i) to post negative comments when you disagree with someone's offer, (ii) for revenge or retaliation when someone leaves you negative feedback, or (iii) for unrelated comments or trading experiences not directly involving you.
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Maybe this is just an elaborate ruse to get ST moderated? /s
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Any exchange is a trade, even gifting. You give to feel good or to get some Karma or to give back to the World.
It will come back to you, one way or the other. ;)
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Yea so go get them on ebay or grocery store xD Man You have some attitude and I wish You get that karma back. SG is SG ST i ST. And gift according to dictionary is "a thing given willingly to someone without payment; a present.". Not I gave You smth than You are
obliged to do the same. Seriously... BL me because I don't want to win anything from You.
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I will probably get blacklisted for saying this. But please at least read this with an open mind (before probably blacklisting me :P):
That is a completely fair way to think, but, you seem to misunderstand the defenition of 'gifting', a gift is like a donation, you should not expect anything material in return (make note of the word material, that is not to say that you don't get karma or other non-material things). Of course I believe that being thankful is an integral part of the process, but if someone does not say thank you it is just rude of them, nothing more. As an addition to that, if someone is in fact so thankful that they also give back a gift, that is something that should also be acknowledged, but I feel like that should be taken more as a pleasant surprise rather than an expectation.
Once again, this is completely my opinion, and I understand that not everyone may agree with this, and that I may not necessarily agree with somebody elses (but I still completely respect others opinions). This is just my personal view on it all, just like yours, which I completely respect.
The main point I'm trying to convey I guess, is just to have an open mind, sometimes a different opinion can be useful in shaping your own.
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What if that LEACH, uses your game to give it out somewhere else or to trade? Which they certainly do, to some extent. ;)
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Yeah, but they have to activate it on their account. When I am gifting a game, I use SG Tools' rule checker to make sure that they have activated all of their wins. If they have, it's a safe bet that they are not trading what they win here. :P
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So you also do monitoring of your own. That's a great thing to do.
But you have to be advanced user to do that with SG Tools. ;)
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No, you don't. You just go here: https://www.sgtools.info/activation
Then type in their name and hit "send." That's it, job done. There is no advanced methods needed. If they are cheating the system, it will tell you. Then you can report them to SG support and ask for reroll.
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But to be fair the checks should be implemented directly in sg and not force members to know other sites and do there something that should be a core thing here.
Each that activate the, earlier, wins can enter new ones. Each that don't do it one time can't enter until they fix it.
That would be the ideal.
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It sounds like you should be creating giveaways with sgtools or certain groups that have requirements. Creating public giveaways and then blacklisting most of the winners is not going to achieve anything because there are so many users on this site. You will just max out your blacklist at 1000 users and continue getting winners that you do not like.
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Maybe BL can be expanded then, to more than 1.000 users? That's something to talk about in the future... ;)
But also, a valid point for the new ideas - make closed gifting. Unfortunately, that also diminishes this SG site, as it makes it too much exclusive club. :/
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Even if the blacklist was unlimited, you are only blocking people that have already won one of your giveaways. This means that you would have to create many thousands of giveaways before you weed out most of the users that you don't want to win. This site has over 1 million registered users. Even if 90% of them don't use the site anymore, there are still way too many to filter through.
Would you really want to spend years buying and creating giveaways for people you don't want to give them to just to filter out most of the users? That would be a waste of time and money. If you are serious about not giving games to the type of people you mentioned, the only way is to not make your giveaways public.
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What I also saw is that some users have won giveaways from me over & over. Same users, different gift.
Mathematically that would be impossible.
But using BOTs & other methods, it is. So I do feel a need to block them. ;)
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It give around 30k active members here from all test that were made in the last months. So lets round it up and say 50k (= 5%).
I have the same problem with public GA's.
Nearly 1k at my BL but "bad apples" are more then enough around -and my reasons for Blacklisting aren't so fast as his ones (at least it looks that way)-.
I don't like to avoid to make public Giveaways because it close out a lot of nice people, that i don't know and never had contact before as one example, too.
So it take me one possibility to meet that users and it is frustrating that sg is so infested by "bad apples". I reported hundreds of clear rule breakers -not activated/multi wins and it isn't funny to waste so much time, from the support members and the user, because of such people and it isn't funny to have partly 8 rerolls and running behind the winner that he take his won stuff. That don't give the right "reward" (i don't speak from money or reputation but yes from basic manners as a thanks as example or the easy thing that the one that give something away aren't forced to run behind the winner that he please please please take his win...) when you buy something and want to give it away.
Something like a "ratio" slider and you were able to filter, at least, that bad apples with the ratio you want and see as fitting.
As example 100 won : 2 gifted (= 50:1).
I can understand his frustration and rant. But i don't think he go the right way with this thread. It won't do something in the positive way. So it is mostly a waste of time and raise mostly only negative stuff.
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I just unblacklisted you so I could blacklist you again lol
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It's a lot of work, trying to discover what happens to your gifts... You put in a lot of time and effort, and you receive... Well, nothing. :)
Speaking only from my own experience, every minute spent on this is a minute wasted. :) I did try a few years ago, it took a long time and wasn't even a little bit fun. Oh, hey, that person won a game, but blah blah blah. And this other person blah blah blah, except blah blah blah, etc. So screw it, really. Once the giveaway ends, it's not my game any more, and what happens to it isn't my problem. :)
Sometimes people will differentiate between "cheap crap for the precious cv" and "real games to be played" - i.e. not caring what happens to the 5 cent bundle leftovers, but expecting the actual games to be installed - but even then, life's too short... :)
I'd say that expecting anything in exchange for a gift means it's not a gift but a trade, a barter, a transaction of some sort. :)
Now, if keeping track of this sort of thing appeals to you, you might be happier using one of those private giveaway groups with a ratio and spreadsheets and calculating value won / received or whatever. I think there's also a group where people are expected to play their wins, but I don't know the details...
Good luck... :)
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Every gift is a transaction, if you believe in KARMA. So everything you gift is good, it will get back to you in some way. Helping one person, will return to you in the other form. So with this I'm just trying to "channel" where my games go...
I do agree it's a big effort, if you have 1,6k given away games, such as yourself. & I must congratulate you on that feat!
But also, you can start from next giveaway, marking anyone you like or dislike. & then the games will get in the right hands.
I just felt I needed to do that, before I gift more. Right now I have 180 games listed on my trading account, some of which I plan to gift here before & during Christmas time. & I want those games in good hands, not some "collector guy" which only sucks up SG. ;)
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Absolutely. You know, I've been on this site 10 months now, and the honest truth is that I never checked up on the people who won my games to see if they played them. That's way too much effort. Maybe 5% of the games I gave away were shit that I got from mystery bundles, but the rest are definitely the kind of games I hope someone will enjoy and not just card farm.
But... as you say, once the keys change hands and they "mark as received" it's no longer my concern. I wouldn't give a gift to a friend for Christmas, then sneak around their house later to see if they used the gift. At that point, it's really none of my business. XD
I get what the OP is saying about rudeness and not saying thank you. But, it takes all sorts to make a world and the way I see it, unless they are in a group with you, the liklihood of them ever winning one of your games again is very small.
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I wouldn't give a gift to a friend for Christmas, then sneak around their house later to see if they used the gift.
lol
..
— Hey, I gifted you a pair of red socks last Christmas and you didn't wear them once!!11 You know, I check everyday.. You wear them on weekends, maybe?..
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You wear them on weekends, maybe?..
No, they are using it on lonely, lonely nights...
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Hahaha! Too funny.
You just reminded me of the godawful sweater that I got for Christmas and I wore it on Christmas day just to be nice to the person who gave it to me. It was pink, blue and yellow with scratchy gold threading. Oh man. Way too colourful for me. lol.
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It was pink, blue and yellow with scratchy gold threading
lol xD And this reminds me of my grandma who often says to me "Oh dear, why are you always wear only black, grey-ish and nothing bright, colorful?" and I'm almost 30, lol Thankfully, she doesn't try to gift me such clothes xD
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Haha! That's hilarious, but wasn't the reason they did it to me. I do wear colours, but it might be a plain yellow sweater with a black dress or jeans. Not crazy colour mash-ups that scream candyfloss carnival vomit. XD
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Totally agree with what you've said.
I think there's also a group where people are expected to play their wins, but I don't know the details...
Two, actually. Playing Appreciated expects you to play your win within a month, while Playing Matters expects you to finish your win within 3 months.
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Why do you sign your name at the end of your post when we can clearly see who made it?
Edit. Jeez easy to provoke I guess. Not even in a minute and already blacklisted
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Courtesy of writing a post.
& I didn't BL list yet...but after this post I will, as you are the one who only gifted 10 games, but suched up 484.
Thanks for posting here, so I can check your account before gifting my games again. ;)
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I dont mind your blacklist man, you giveaways are out of my range anyway.
You are a gradeA douche though, judging from what you doing around the thread. Just dont go around and write negative reviews on another site about people who dont play by your rules, okay?
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Well, that's also another security measure, not to give games on LEVEL 0 or 1. If that makes me a "grade A douche", then be it. :D
Why not? is there a problem in seeing ad behavior on one site, can be seen on the other? I like that all is connected. So when I do trade or gift to someone, I know all the information before. There's no hiding on the internet, everyone can check up on things linked to you. So maybe it is you who should change your behavior?! ;)
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By grade A douche I meant this "holier than you" mentality you seem to posess, the kind that radiate from your main post and also you comments, not the levels of the giveaways you make.
As for leaving negative comment on steamTRADES because someone didnt thanked your GIVEAWAY on steamGIFTS is just idiotic. I cant articulate it better than that so I hope you get the picture.
Also, are you sure about that last segment? I'm pretty sure your limp crusade against your wrongdoers who cant comply to your invisible rules looks way more pathetic than whatever I can came up with here.
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Isn't blacklisting those kind of users pointless when you can just set the level of your GA's to something high?
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Some users buy one game & gift it, which will get them to LEVEL 4 or 5 to suck up this site. Seen those in my giveaways, where someone gifted $40 game, just to get to higher levels. ;)
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Well... look at it this way. Two people have only 40 dollars that they can spend on games for a 6 month period.
Billy goes to shit bundle site (like Groupees or DIG) and buys 40 1 dollar bundles, each containing 10 games. Billy now has 400 really shit games that he can gift over 6 months on SG and benefit from the CV. Billy wins 100 regular non-trash bundle games in his first 6 months at SG and has given away those 400 trash games.
Bobby buys one highly wishlisted game from steam and pays full price at 40 dollars for it. Bobby has given away 1 game and has also won 100 regular non-trash bundle games in his first 6 months on SG.
Which user is worse? The one who bought the trash bundles to bump up his giveaway count, or the one who bought 1 highly wishlisted game with his 40 dollars that he knows someone is going to enjoy. I think I'd probably prefer to have users like Bobby around with his 1 giveaway.
(also, you need 100 dollars for level 4, and 250 dollars for level 5 :P)
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It will give only a few Bobby's that reach level 2 or 3 and loose over time a part of that level and a lot of "Billy's" that give away 10x 1$ extreme cv farming bundles (thx fanatical /s) and are with that at level 4+ and don't loose something from this levels over time.
One of the reasons why it give so less Bobby's....
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I must admit, I 'expect' winners to be courteous and thank me, but I don't go as far to blacklist them if they don't. Sometimes it depends on the game I'm giving away.
But if you are going to BL winners for not thanking you, I think you should at least state your intentions in the giveaway description (even though, most won't read it). And it seems particularly odd that you would give those winners negative rep on a completely unrelated site. That just seems obtuse.
If you already know what a 'worthy' SGer is (i.e. non-leach by your definition) then just codify that definition with sgtools and be done with it.
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Sure, especially when I given some 20+P games & people are all the same with it, not thanking. How do you feel? OK, you got the game. No thank you. How come?
Will, making BL of 400 users here, was had enough.
Some 300 got also bad reps on ST. But I stopped that, when mods were overwhelmed with the reports about me. LoL, can you imagine that - people actually reported me here & they are the "everything bad" on this site? LoL
Making this post was another step, so anyone here can read it. Think about it & evaluate their doing.
If they are a leach, they can stop. I don't expect them to stop, but they can stop that activity.
If they are a normal users & a newbies here, they will educate themself about this site & see how they can protect their gifting.
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Why post something in a Ga description, that anyway only between 2 and 15% will read, that involve basic manners.
Or is a thanks for something that someone get anything else as basic manners that anyone on this planet should have learned in a very young age ?
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Hum. Giving negative feedback on ST when no trades were involved is childish and you are surely fully aware that leaving -rep as a mean of getting revenge on someone is not allowed. Those -rep of yours will eventually be removed. But thanks for cluttering SeamTrades with even more fake feedback.
You are being selfish doing that. Also, looking at your other "discussions", you come across as very whiny. That being said, since SteamGifts seems to be such an awful place and a bot and leech paradise, why the hell are you still here? Seriously? O_o At this point, I guess you just like getting attention.
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Too much negativity in you, to see the better way - there is.
Once the goodness in all this, you will see.
Giving up we must not!
Great way to walk coming is. ;)
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All that talk about bots and leechers... and it seems that you haven't played any of your wins. O_o
Stop with the holier than thou attitude, you are no better than them in my books.
Yeah, I'm one of those crazy people who think that ratio isn't everything. Playing matters too. I've given away wishlisted games that never saw any playtime. If you can't be bothered to play the games you win, I'm certainly not going to pay to make your game collection bigger.
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I was waiting someone to come to that. As recently I've been playing on some other platforms, other then STEAM. You do believe, that those exist, do you? O_o
It's all good, as I do have more games to play then time to play them. & got great paycheck to buy me all those 2+k games. ;)
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We all know other platform exist but I think the point NazaSekh is trying to make is the people that you've won game from could also take offence to you entering their giveaway for Steam's game if you don't even play games on Steam.
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That... wow.. ok. Hang on. You missed my point entirely. You can play games on any platform you like. that's perfectly fine and I absolutely don't care about that.
I was talking about the games you've won from Steamgifts. You. Never. Played. Any. One. Of. Them. at least, that's what the script "Do You Even Play, Bro" tells me
I personally dislike seeing users who don't seem to be bothered to play what they have won here. As I've said in my previous comment, some of the games I've given away were on my own wishlist. Games I wanted to play. Instead of adding them to my library, I've created GA's because I just wanted to make someone else happy. Maybe put a smile on their face. It was quite frustrating for me to notice that some nice games I gave away were never touched.
I do think that people who don't play their wins are not really better than bots and "leechers". Therefore, from my perspective, you are no better than those damn bots and leechers you rant about. Yeah, you have a great ratio (and it looks like you can thank the shovelware bundle sites for that... For someone who boasts about having a big paycheck, you sure seem to like making crappy giveaways.) but you don't play your wins. I'd rather have a leecher who actually plays what they get from SG win my giveaways than someone like you.
Especially you. On top of what I've said... you're such a drama queen. You make me wish Konrad was still around. At least, he was entertaining.
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Also, he did giveaways of free games. FREE GAMES lol
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What I find funny about people giving away freebies is that their usual excuses for doing so is, it's easier for peeps to get said freebies that way aaaand also, to give a chance to those who might have missed on them.
For the latter, I could understand if they were making GA's a while after the promotion had ended. Aaaaannd if those free games were difficult to obtain in the first place (such as the Alienware giveaways that mostly require users to be at least level 30) But nopity nope. SteamGifts mostly gets flooded with HB freebies while it's still possible to get a free key. O_o
For the former explanation, I just can't take that seriously. I mean... if people can't be bothered to create an account on HB to get their free shit, I do believe that's because they simply weren't interested enough by the game or they're damn too lazy. So... to me... that doesn't make sense to create giveaways for freebies that, for instance, Humble Bundle is currently giving away.
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Full account's gameplay time is 568 hours, lifelong. Only the first 5 games take up 504 hours of it.
So we have this guy here, with 2558 owned games, out of which 164 are wins with exactly 0 seconds of gameplay time in the past 28 months ( As recently lol.)
In other words, in four and half years (the age of his account) this guy played ~64 hours with his 2553 games, an average of 90 seconds with each. And is being hellbent on stepping up against horders, and talking about ungrateful winners with his unplayed wins.
Clearest "pot calling the kettle black"-situation since a looong time.
And of course he's back to his paycheck :D
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You know, when you put it that way... it's even more facepalm-inducing. Thank you, Adam. ;)
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You do realize it is mathematically impossible for everyone to have more gift sent than received. The point of this site is for people who are more fortunate and well of to gift games to people who can't always buy the games they want. It's like saying I'm not going to donate money to the poor because they don't donate themselves. Of course, there are leechers who misuse the system but you can't judge everyone by that standard.
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Even if there are people, who come from misfortune & they can't buy those games.
Exactly those are the people who will say "Thank you" for the gift, you give to them. As they can't get it otherwise. ;)
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You do realize it is mathematically impossible for everyone to have more gift sent than received.
But it could be even! Which is called trading :p
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Wouldn't be more fair and reasonable to blacklist someone that have not played your game?
I get that some people do not have enough money to spare and they came here to win some games only. If they played them though it is a good thing they won it. If not then I would still check their backlog if possible.
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Imho the most (only?) reasonable thing you mentioned here is that you expect to get blacklisted.
Bringing your "They didn't thank me!" madness to another platform is nothing but childish and wasting time and effort from unrelated people.
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i only come to say "I don't really care that much about what the winner does if they are a winner in a "Free to all" GA"
I mean, if i wanted the ppl to be thankfull or something i would do only groups giveaway...
like that one time one of my winners said "Yoh man, less than 4 got in the GA of the group, i don't mind if you delete it so you get that sweet CV"
that was one nice dude ;3
Wich i promptly said "Its k man, keep the game, if i wanted CV i would had gone for public GA"
so....join a group and only do GA for those groups, it would save space on the BL at the very least
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You should be banned from ST for abusing the feedback system ;)
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Public giveaways are not for you. My suggestions:
- If you want to have winners who also create giveaways then join a private group with ratio, aka "random trading" groups :)
- If you want your winners to also play their wins, then join Playing Appreciated as a giver.
If you create public giveaways the "risk" is always there: ungrateful winners, bots, users with negative ratio, etc. You don't have to expect anything from a winner except to have the gift marked as received (and activated). They are not breaking any rule.
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Hmmmm.... *Sorts your Library by Playtime." Only 11 games with more than 3 hours played... 16 games with more than 2 hours played... That means that you have at least around 148 SG Wins which you have given less than 2 hours of your time to (if I assume that none of your wins were related to the same game, aka DLC and such; and assuming that all of your top played games were SG wins).
Tell me- were those 148 giveaways won by the right person? A person who would give the game even the minimal decency of attention? A person who actually wanted to play that game in the first place and entered the giveaway in question because of that? I definitely know that if I had made any of those giveaways, I'd feel really bad right now.
(Or are you gonna claim that you played all those games in Offline mode or something and that's why you have any playtime in only 31 games total?)
Meanwhile, here you are waving your numbers around and bragging (ranting?) about what are ultimately your personal decisions.
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You know, it didn't even occur to me to check their stats!
Whitelisted for bring facts to the conversation.
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Tell me- were those 148 giveaways won by the right person? A person who would give the game even the minimal decency of attention? A person who actually wanted to play that game in the first place and entered the giveaway in question because of that? I definitely know that if I had made any of those giveaways, I'd feel really bad right now.
Ooh, that is harsh, but also totally fair.
But, hey, at least he thanked the gifters. :)
Also, wow, your played stats are an inspiration.
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Recently I've been away from Discussions, as I've been reviewing all my gifted games. As you can check, I've given away some 450+ games here & did raise some of the concerns in topics here:
Some of those groups got a pretty big & volatile discussions, as emotions got high.
As some of the users here from SG got to my contacts, we talked more & more about our own experiences here.
& it got me thinking, that I also haven't done my "homework". So last few weeks some of you have noticed I made some extra effort about BL some people & spreading out the word about their behavior here: https://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/ELKf6/noise#8Nx6bmF
As I'm part of the FREE WORLD, so I do think that every action have consequence (including this post), I have done it with my FREE WILL & SOUND MIND.
Upon reviewing all my 450+ given games, most of the users (some 80%) have been added to my BLACKLIST (BL)
The reasons are following:
Some 50% of users lack the time & well behavior to do so, from my review of the given games.
This is not the behavior I would like to see on this site, as a user here. So I acted with tools I had & BL all those people.
All those nice people which thanked for games & are here to gift back - those were WHITELISTED & I congratulate to them on this occasion. Those are the users which can make SG great again & those are the users which can carry out the goodness of this World.
Last, I do expect to get on someone BL after this post (some 103 at this point in time), as they will not agree with me & my actions. That's OK & I do understand, as I wouldn't want to get games from those people anyway. Not that I need much, as my STEAM account already has seom 2.800+ games, of which only 164 were won here on SG (by today, 20th Oct 2019).
Also, I do write this to the good users, how to protect their gifts from people who are sucking up all the goodness out of this site. You have a power to BL or WL any user here, depending on their behavior, gifting & contribution to the site, writing posts, being rude or any other way. Act on it & this might lead to a better site...
Enjoy,
KLiKzg
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