Apparently laws will change, soon. It has been hard to miss on this forum and others, like Reddit. The European Union wants Steam (and similar services like Amazon and Spotify) to pay value-added tax in the country of purchase. An the reaction of a potential(!) increase in price of already dirt cheap Steam games has been violent. Of course it has, we gamers don't have this sticky, bad, reputation for nothing.

Anyway, let me get this straight.

You guys (because the overall consensus was negative) believe it's okay for Steam (and similar services) to dodge tax. Just like rich people do, when they flee to Cayman Islands. The European Union is one of the few places where the power of big companies are being fought (at least on some level) and that's actually a good thing. You can see that, right? The European Union is stomping on Steam, not on us - the consumer. If companies would in return stomp on us, is another topic entirely. Tax is not theft. It's necessary. And for the record, the attitude "I pirate now because games may be more expensive because they're a human right and I cannot live without them" damages the whole PC-scene okay?

TL;DR Blame the publishers and other companies - not the European Union. Tax dodging IS NOT OKAY.

/end rant

9 years ago*

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I'm not mad at EU. I'm mad at Valve because 1$=1€ policy was excused with "it's because VAT is included in the price", which turned out to be bullshit.

9 years ago
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That's the publisher though, isn't it?

9 years ago
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Technically yea, though it's more of a retailer cause of Steam.

9 years ago
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Someone has to explain me why everything is 1€ = 1$. That's quite right if the item has import taxes and transport, but for digital goods...

9 years ago
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not everything, it depends on publisher/developer.
Look at games from Bohemia interactive for example. They cost everywhere circa the same

9 years ago
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Armas are actually bit cheaper in EU. Love you Bohemia <3

9 years ago
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Here's the thing.

Because it would be "unfair" towards brick-and-mortar retailers to price digital goods based on purely digital values. (Because digital goods lack so many of the costs that come into play with physical copies.)
We've been looking at digital goods that are priced based on physical goods pricing rules.

Physical goods have the following come into play:

  • Base resource cost for the actual physical copy.
  • Production cost for the physical copy (factory cost etc).
  • Logistics (transportation/storage) cost for the physical copy from the factory to a storage/middleman location and from there to the final store.
  • Retailer cost for their store, staff etc.
  • Any taxes, fees, wages etc not included in the above.

It has been calculated that digital games could be sold for 33~50% less, and the publisher/developer would not lose a single cent in profits. Yes, digital goods are that much more profitable.
However that would give digital retailers (like Steam, Origin, GMG etc) an unfair advantage, and we can't have that right? So brick-and-mortar retailers such as Gamestop and all the others fight tooth and nail to keep pricing agreements up. And digital retailers aswell as publishers/developers are more than happy to keep this balance in play, since this means that every digital copy sold turns into liquid gold - its basicly pure profits.

Add to that the currency conversion rate. With €1 being approximately $1,25 - and we're looking at another 25% increase in price. Taxing in Europe generally fits between 19 and 25% with most countries 21~23% (the exact values can be found online).

And as pointed out by the original post above, most companies when faced with taxes will simply calculate the sudden increase in cost down to their customers. Even if they should have been paying for this all along and the "increase in cost" actually isn't an increase, but is a rectification.
Yes, we as consumers have technically been paying for taxes all along - and in all likelihood we will be paying EVEN MORE extra to compensate for the supposed addition in taxes.

Meaning we'll not be paying 25% extra, but 50% extra. Turning these digital goods that already make 33~50% more than physical copies, and already get 25% extra through USD:EUR currency conversion into even more liquid gold as another 25% gets added to the pile.

9 years ago
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Finally someone with brains on this forum!I'm assuming you're Yurpean,since having all those facts at the back of your mind would not be really all that useful for a person that comes outside of EU(some of it is just common sense and affects everyone-being digital goods have cheaper maintenance,hence should be cheaper altogether);but if you're actually not,I commend you,good sir,for your awareness,altruism and camaraderie .

On another note,I never actually knew these big digital retailers had any tax exemptions,at least in EU.Now,that's douchbaggery.Wow,how did they get away with it. . .shizz.And how are we,the end-users,gonna get phucked up our buttholes,and for how long!Dear god.Valve will most certainly see less and less of my moneeh.We'll see about Amazon tho-they kinda have a lot better deals and access for EU customers,if you're buying from the US store,that is.

And that raises another concern-(I know this one's been blabbed about many times over)can Steam actually run out of business and file for bankruptcy,if no one is buying from their store-and ultimately,what then happens to everyone's libraries full of,most likely junk games,but also some kick-ass gems,you could not have obtained any other way.I am kinda thankful for their projection and hopes that newcomers to pc gaming will mostly rely on Steam,at least in the beginning,thus cover Valve's expenditures for digital distribution;but on the other hand,I'd be wishing to all new pc-oriented gamers,what I've gone thru with Steam;disloyal,unfair,noncompetitive pricing,deception,absolutely no transparency in online marketing and just pure and outright robbery,while dodging those exact laws which they enforce so gladly when it comes to taking hard-earned money from poor unaware souls.

I swear,every goddamn time I'm on online,hunting for bargains,and I run into a store that shows me prices in €,I just wanna hurl my guts out.

Meaning we'll not be paying 25% extra, but 50% extra. Turning these digital goods that already make 33~50% more than physical copies, and already get 25% extra through USD:EUR currency conversion into even more liquid gold as another 25% gets added to the pile.

I shall pray to hell with a whole goddamn library and its bookshelves stuffed with only Necronomicon,just so your words never see the light of day.

9 years ago
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big digital retailers

Physical stores pulled this Irish shell game for years. Many still do. Amazon and Steam are far, FAR, from the only ones that do it. Also, Steam AFAIK, reports to the US its taxes as opposed to playing the Irish Shell game like facebook/amazon.

9 years ago
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Look up "Valve SARL Luxembourg". There's their tax loophole. Which is now being shut the fuck down. They were charging us full VAT tax rates, while paying 3%, all along.

9 years ago
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Your last point is the main reason why a lot of people are hesitant in relying on Steam or a similar service for all their needs.
The convenience is great, but putting all your eggs in one basket? Well, if steam/valve were to topple you'd be screwed.

Mind you, there are ways of getting the installer files stored on a backup harddrive - you CAN actually make your entire steam library into a physical backup if you bother to go through it.

9 years ago
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That's why digital games go on sale all the time, and physical copies rarely do. I think you may overestimating the extra cost for them to produce physical copies, the price of the materials and production is next to nothing, especially when mass produced, they are transported in bulk so the price of transportation per unit is next to nothing as well, and retailer costs are present for both physical and digital copies. The most significant costs lie in the development and advertising; once that's done both digital and physical products are both basically pure profits.

9 years ago
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While the exact figures differ from instance to instance - you can find a range of them from various studies and individuals active in the industry.

Whatever the EXACT figures are. Digital distribution is far far cheaper than physical goods because of two main reasons.
1 - there is no need for actual goods (physical goods need to be remade for each sale, digital goods do not - steam can't "run out of stock" unless they are limited in keys which is administrative cost only)
and 2 - number of people involved, digital distribution lacks the extensive logistics (no need for truckdrivers, warehouse personel, management of various parties involved, store personel etc). While digital services such as Steam do have their own set of personel involved, the number of people that need to be paid is far lower and far more centralized.

You can localize everything to a few central locations and be done with it - you think physical goods is about sending a single truck to a warehouse? You need to supply EVERY individual store seperately. And all those costs come out of your pocket as consumer.

9 years ago
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Yet people seem to forget that servers and bandwidth to process all the downloads and purchases aren't exactly free either. Also the whole thing about digital prices having to be the same as physical actually has impeded every platform except PC from being able to get consumers to make the jump over to digital. Consumers will never readily accept that a digital product is worth the same amount as a physical one is and the only reason why it is accepted on PC is because you can't buy physical copies of most games.

And the thing is, on consoles and handhelds even if the digital prices were a bit lower, plenty would still go physical. There's still a serious lack of trust that a game bought on a console will always be available to them as long as they have that console and it works. A lot of people are rightfully concerned that they will lose their purchases on PS3 and Xbox 360 and to be honest, Sony and Microsoft have given the consumers little confidence that digital is a great idea there, especially when people who bought digital content on the original Xbox did lose it when the servers shut down. And Nintendo is even further behind than they are since they also had the hesitance of purchases being tied to a device until they finally got an account based system. A lot of people are very much avoiding digital and Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo have no way to entice customers to consider digital since the prices being the same as physical, plus the higher costs of additional storage on consoles and handhelds, plus the potential loss of all content in a few years, leads to people saying fuck that and continuing to buy physical.

Gamestop and other brick and mortar stores really aren't in any danger of losing out to digital quite yet. But they do need to be ready to adapt for when people do gain confidence in digital or they will go the way of Blockbuster when streaming started becoming popular. Keeping to outdated practices in a field that is constantly innovating like gaming is will just result in bankruptcy for the businesses unwilling to adapt their practices to meet the demand of consumers. That is just how business works.

9 years ago
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I think current Valve suggested rates are bit under that, but nearly there. These are prices that Valve suggest to publishers and indies. Many follow them.

9 years ago
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Cause they're feckin greedbags,they.shame on all o'dem.suits n ties cramping our styles.jerks!i hope they all kick their buckets,and in return those buckets land on their fugly heads and never come off.phuckphaces and feces of the this planet.

9 years ago
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Being forced to pay horrendous amounts of tax is not oke either. ;)

9 years ago
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Swedish lad here! We've a VAT of 25% and a income tax of 30% (+20% if income is above 45,000€). And we're doing alright.

9 years ago
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Italy lad here! We've a VAT of 22% and an income tax of 30%~ avarage, (41-43% over 55.00). And we're doing shit

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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not my fault. I've never voted that "thing"

9 years ago
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He walks away with a smile on his face while everyone watches in bewilderment. You just can't fake this shit. lol.

9 years ago
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Con Peppe al potere anziché Renzie tutto questo non accadrebbe.

9 years ago
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Ezio Auditore da Firenze.

9 years ago
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9 years ago
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So gewd. . .and tasty too!

9 years ago
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News flash - they have been making us pay for these taxes they have not been paying for years now.

Thats why €!=$ is a thing on Steam.
European games are on average 2025% more expensive than USD-priced games - the very increase that VAT covers...
Afterall, it'd be unfair competition towards physical retailers if digital goods were 30
50% cheaper (even though they only carry a fraction of the actual costs involved and thus effectively that 30~50% reduction in costs turn into pure profits.)

9 years ago
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Belarus comrade here! I was taxed my last ruble by President today, and Im doing AWESOME!

9 years ago
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K™

now I'll be happy to pay more.

9 years ago
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I don't think people are okay with tax dodging. They just don't want to pay more.

9 years ago
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+1

9 years ago
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Maybe it's just me getting a negative vibe from your reply,but they shouldn't anyways.It's all fictive,virtual pricing after all;digital goods all have their prices inflated-and that's what I call scamming and misrepresentation.No one should pay more for a single piece of IP,that practically costs nothing to manufacture,and is in fact,a replication of one such IP,it's distribution and handling is as low as it can get,thus potential losses are extremely minimal.All I'm saying that pricing as it is today is mind-boggling,considering everything.A farmer can't sell a piece of produce twice-a tomato or a carrot,once sold,leaves the back of his pickup,he can't resell it over n over.These might not be his intellectual property,but he cultivated them from day one,and should reap the max he can out of those.But paying 50,69,70,90$(=€) for a replica is just plain robbery and extortion,and they get away with it every single goddamn day.

PS:You SHOULD blame EU's Commission,Council,Parliament,Foreign Trade Affairs department,the whole EU government for letting something like this slip under the radar,not investigate it at all,when instead they could have benefited and legislated it whole lot better.If all above ordered exemptions for those digital dealers,then that's an entirely different story,and should be taken as an extreme case malice.

9 years ago
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I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm not in EU region and I certainly did not intend to give anyone a "negative vibe". I'm not sure how you are getting that impression from two short sentences. Did you reply to the wrong person?

9 years ago
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Most certainly not,I mean the reply thing.I went with the "paying more" part,the rest just came along,and I didn't really feel like scrolling all the way down for a new reply.It was meant to be as a general warning,nothing taht's really aimed at you personally.the last part was,indeed,intended for OP.i just didn't understand where you opinion comes from,whether pl should be okay,or not be kool with paying more.sounded a bit sarcastic,that's why i jumped in.

9 years ago
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Are you saying it is unethical that they charge such a high price for their non-original games? Or that their digital products should not cost as much as they do because they cost less to manufacture than a physical product? Keep in mind, that they must pay for the rights to sell each game they do not develop themselves, and must cover day-to-day operating costs, which are probably quite large considering Valve develops games, provides online service for most of them, has to maintain its store and its in-game client. In addition to that, they probably have very significant overhead costs from corporate tax (35% in the US, which is very high) and everything else they payout from their profits. As a company that wants to return a profit, its not that strange that they don't sell at a price similar to their "manufacturing costs". That, and they wouldn't want to charge nothing when they knew they would lose massive sums of money by not selling where they have maximized profit.

Edit: Also, if they market price for a game is at a certain level, I'm guessing Valve has to agree with companies on what price they will charge for games they do not develop as part of their licensing agreement. It's possible they don't have the ability to control price outside of occasional sales.

9 years ago
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Actual price of physical copy production adds very little to the price of a game. I dont know why you insist on citing it as a valid excuse for game prices. Due to the way the global markets are set up, after everything is said and done, the manufacturing plant and shipping routes are set up, actual cost, per unit, is maybe 1-2 cents. Mass production is incredible cheap.

9 years ago
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i live in south america, we are miles away from even caring about online shops, so moar dirt cheap games to me.

9 years ago
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you are alone, most south americans go for steam theses days, not that the sales this year helped to keep at it...

9 years ago
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You know, it's just a bit hard to take to have to pay more when you're the one that already pays most.

9 years ago
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There are shops that pay far more tax rates than valve and the correct VAT...with more or less the same prices....so if valve still wants to fill a daily dollar-bathtub for gabe...they should consider to change from franklin to jackson.

9 years ago
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OP, you can't expect gamers to understand these things. Sll they feel as consumers is price increase and that's where all the negative reactions are coming from (reasonably).

If Valve increases prices (yet again), the only way to fight it is by not buying from them, but we all know that's not going to happen because Steam is so convenient.

9 years ago
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"Tax is not theft. It's necessary."

While taxation is not theft, it is a redistribution of wealth, taking from some and giving to others. And while redistribution of wealth is one way to fund a government, it is not the only way. Taxation is an option, not a necessity.

9 years ago
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Is there a particular model you'd prefer/suggest? Maybe more towards USA, former Soviet ideals or something different?

9 years ago
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Somalia is doing well...

9 years ago
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There is a particular model I would prefer and suggest, but a discussion on how it would work and the prerequisites of implementing such a model would require more space than we have here. Suffice it to say that there are at least three ways to fund a government: taxation; localization; and exploitation of resources. Most governments use a combination of those three, but taxation is the least efficient of those methods.

9 years ago
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Okay, and how you would fund government otherwise? Print money? Turn it into rule of paid oligarchy? Just curious.

9 years ago
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1) See my response, above.
2) Printing money without the capital necessary to back it up only increases inflation. The value of currency is predicated on the worth of the goods and/or services it represents. If there is none, the currency is worth less than the paper upon which it is printed.
3) Beyond the fact that an oligarchy is inefficent, the type of funding implemented does not delineate the form of government. Rather, it is the other way round.

9 years ago
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You're implying all tax is necessary and not sometimes a tool to shift markets, which is careless...

9 years ago
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I think you're responding to someone else, here, as what I said is the exact opposite.

9 years ago
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Sorry Kha, but tax in different form is the ONLY way to gather money by Gov, we talk about Gov fund here, somethingmust be spend all of the time, bond only a quick, short method in desperate or difficult time

9 years ago
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I'm sorry, Long, but you are mistaken. Please see my previous response for the different methods of acquiring funding. Also, keep in mind that governments are instituted among men to provide state-wide services, craft policy, and protect the rights of individuals. Depending upon how a government is structured, it will be larger or smaller, more intrusive or less, oppressive or laissez-faire. In essence, a government is no more than the organization of its populace.

9 years ago
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"the power of big companies being fought".......by letting us pay their fees, nice.
I'm ok with this, if Valve is the one to pay, but if they just add it to our cost, then what exactly happened? did they hurt the companies or us?

Exactly, us!

9 years ago
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THIS... it's not about hurting the big companies, they will have the same income, it's the consumers who will be taxed.

9 years ago
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EU is stomping on Steam. If prices increase, companies are to blame - not the EU, because Steam shouldn't have been dodging taxes at all, and YET THEY DID. For AAALLLL these years. Will prices increase though? We don't really know yet, do we.

9 years ago
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Op, you missed the whole point, im not even gonna bother to post more someone else already explained.

9 years ago
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No, I didn't so get of your high horse, Pedro the Walrious.

9 years ago
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all i can see this doing is drumming up business for tax lawyers. also been as how the EU has not once published their accounts im skeptical that any new tax money will go anywhere other than some civil servants back pocket, i support the UK being in the EU but some parts of it need reforming

9 years ago
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I quite honestly don't care. I'll gladly pay for my games, a little price hike wont put me off.

9 years ago
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cause they need to get people to operate in those countries:)?

9 years ago
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Nope. They don't. They only have people operating in tax-haven Luxemburgh that serve the rest of the region. (at least western Europe)

9 years ago
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I don't care about paying taxes as long as they aren't abusive...
And believe me, here in BR they are

9 years ago
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Eh, stop being socialists. You should be more worried about your inflated currency collapsing, cough, Euro. :)

9 years ago
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Red is good, comrade! My favorite part are tuition free universities and equal healthcare for everyone (in theory). Also, isn't the Euro stronger than the Dollar?
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
gets on the floor, walks the dinosaur

9 years ago
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Euro had been consistently 20-35% stronger than dollar through most of last decade, so I don't know where he gets his info. Fox News? -.-"

9 years ago
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You mean constantly on the verge of collapsing because countries in the system kept going bankrupt? lmmfao Oh right, that hasn't been happening at all. /sarcasm Just be thankful the one major conservative country in Europe, Germany, was willing to bail the rest of you out.

9 years ago
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Well, maybe if Germany does it about 10 more times it'll excuse them for the Holocaust. Or for starting WWI. Or for starting WWII.

9 years ago
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Shows how much knowledge you've of Europe. Americans, eh? ;)

Germany is not the richest country in Europe, by far, seen to GNP/capita - Germany is barely on top 10, and their government dept per capita is somewhere at place place 13. There're countries that are worse of than others in Europe, but Greece didn't go bankrupt because of the Euro and by the way - amazing american banking caused most of the economical damage, remember that.

9 years ago
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Name the countries that filed for bankruptcy!And were bailed out.Oh,that's right,the only country that actually went thru that whole process is Greece,a country that is funded,in better part,by your country's government.How krazee is that,huh?

The whole EU is a socialist concept,like a semi-dysfunctional family,the way it is now.It might get worse b4 it gets better.But you don't see its whole cities going bankrupt,even though their country has the strongest economy.Lookin at you Motor City.And btw,do you happen to know which analytic company did your government bribe to forge data of the whole GDP list in 2014?Talkin about inflated currency. . .sheesh.

9 years ago
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yeah because Germany doesn't owe anything to anyone after money it stole+damages it did after ww2 right?

9 years ago
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Wow... I'm not sure how to read that statement because, on the face of it, it is wrong in so many ways.

9 years ago
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Buuuurrrrn!Nice one dude!Love the last part. . .

9 years ago
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Free health care and low taxes here in Canada. Our dollar's worth less then the states, but we have quite high minimum wages and only about 12% taxes here

9 years ago
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inflated currency

Cough cough yott.

9 years ago
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Tax dodging is not okay. The issue, though, is that Valve ALREADY dodged most if not all tax they owed to EU thanks to Luxembourg deal while lying all the time EU had higher prices due to taxes. They already stole so much they should be able to keep EU prices level next 5 years, but instead prefer to gouge their consumers even more. This already on top of uniform EU prices targeted at Germany/Sweden level, not central/southern Europe one :/

9 years ago
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Yes and that's horrible. But EU should be commended for cracking down on big cooperation and if(!!) Valve increases their pricing in EU, they should be criticized. It seems to me as if many have it backwards. (apparently) EU is the big bad and Valve is the shy underdog. But Valve are greedy as fak.

9 years ago
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You do realize those loopholes were made by politicians for the companies they work for or are being paid by, and now they're just taking the smaller targets because it would be a real bitch to challenge Amazon, Starbucks or Apple?

Hating the EU is just right. Not for this law, but for the reason it exists and because it's another one in a long line of double standards.

9 years ago
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Okay you're a tiny bit misinformed I think?

This law targets all digital goods, no matter if Amazon, Spotify or Steam. Also, these weren't loopholes per se. These laws were established pre-digital goods and never updated. Therefore this happened, and - Luxembourg was being a greedy little bitch. And their neighbors have been trying to get at them for a long time now. Hope this clears the issue up a bit :)

9 years ago
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Amazon doesn't just sell digital goods, so their major assets are in the clear. The EU doesn't do anything about those tax holes but they argue back and forth for a proposal that will mostly hurt consumers, leave their lobbies alone and still look like they did something.

9 years ago
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Okay.

You don't know how VAT TAX works.

Right now, in EU - you pay LOCAL VAT TAX on everything you buy via the internet. Sweden has 25% VAT, therefore I pay 25% VAT even when I buy from Amazon. When I buy a digital product - I do NOT play 25% VAT because companies dodge this like the little c*nts they are. Therefore the law is being cleared up so that greedy cooperation pay up. Mkay?

9 years ago
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Doesn't change anything I said. They're delaying the actual problem with this. They're intentionally addressing the most miniscule part of taxation inconsistencies they can find while JC and his crew of money launderers still get to live large at our expense. If they really wanted to tackle taxes, they wouldn't choose "VAT on digital downloads".

Also, please stop saying VAT TAX because that's like RIP IN PEACE. VAT is just the second tax on your income, that's all it is.

9 years ago
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the fuck is JC? Jesus Christ? Jersey City? Julius Caesar? Jeremy Clarkson?

I like how you just give up and start pointing out trivial errors in my statement when you clearly had no idea how VAT tax even works, and I quote you (among other goodie bits) "because it would be a real bitch to challenge Amazon, Starbucks or Apple?".

9 years ago
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It's still VAT, and I just told you how it works. You fail to see the general issue and get caught up in a sheer minor problem, just as planned - blind to the picture. JC is obviously Jean-Claude Juncker (does "context" ring a bell?) and you're proving you have less of an idea what you're talking about than those you're accusing. The problem at hand is not a lack of "taxation for digital goods just like physical ones", it's them closing a minor hole while getting you rallied and exhausted on a tiny piece of money while they keep snorting cocaine on tax money and courtesy of big corps still using the equivalent of this loophole in company taxation: Luxembourg. Good job doing their bidding. Why do they even need the yellow press if there's you distracting from the real problem? Let's get caught up in scandals so we don't have to deal with issues. That's how we roll, isn't it?

9 years ago
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I've never seen Jean-Claude Juncker written as JC. It's a bit obnoxious to shorten a name like that and assume that I immediately am on track with your thinking. Also I think you missed my point by a Scandinavian mile. My point is that the Steam SHOULD be subject to value added tax while people whine and complain because they are used to cheap-er games. I never brought "JC" into the argument because that's another discussion. Yes, Jean-Claude is a douche but didn't he paint himself into a corner?

VAT should be equal for everyone.
Fuck Jean Claude.

9 years ago
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You mentioned Luxembourg getting greedy, so you did bring him in. Also, he's in charge of money in the EU. As long as there are no proper tax laws in place, targeting a niche is NOT right.
If you followed me, you might have realized I told you this consistent derailing of public outrage towards minor topics and scandals is in the very intent of those profiting from the current inconsistent taxation, so if you open a topic on who is to blame, a narrow scope will just make it a useless waste of bytes.

9 years ago
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Wait. Hold on. There has been a misunderstanding.

I'm calling Luxembourg greedy because of their local tax laws and tax agreements. Which is the reason companies move there, among other things. But my discussion is about VAT and how Steam (and more) pre January 1st didn't follow the same rules as other merchandise which is fucked up. I never claimed the laws to be perfect, but VAT has been around for a VERY LONG TIME and services like Steam have been laughing all the way to the bank because of outdated laws.

9 years ago
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Amazon already has to pay local tax of destination country because it's sells over certain threshold to most countries. I think it was 100k or so. So there is existing sensible legislation, now it just expanded to include digital goods.

9 years ago
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End of steam end of my buying wallet for games finally i will have money to buy pizza each week

9 years ago
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You have 200 games on Steam. You're not leaving, don't kid yourself.

9 years ago
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The ride never ends. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

9 years ago
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nobody should be able to dodge taxes.

well, then i wait on average 3 month longer unitl i buy (when there is a good discount and/or price drops) to compensate or get it in a bundle. 20€ is the upper limit i pay for a really good game, <10€ for an average one. so i wait a bit longer for price drop.

9 years ago
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Expecting people in this thread to understand tax is too much for their brain. Gamers are indeed brainless.

Sigh.

9 years ago
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Or maybe people are annoyed that the EU and UK zones are already the two most expensive places to buy games on Steam and gamers are justified in being annoyed that they are being told they will now pay -even more- for those games.

You are indeed brainless. Sigh.

9 years ago
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Since when did a lack of understanding stop anyone from leaping into action? )

9 years ago
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Thanks for the useful comment. I guess you're including yourself.

9 years ago
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You are so retarded you believe in that communist bullshit. 90% OF TAXATION IS STEALING. You take from some and give to others. If I took your bike, gave it to someone else and said he needs it more than you you would call the police. Income tax is just a punishment for good work. The better you work the more you pay. And who gets some of that money? Unemployed. You are rewarding them for not working. Conclusion? It's not worth to work because you can get money for doing nothing instead of being punished.

COMPANIES DON'T PAY THE VAT. Those who buy the product pay it. If you increase the VAT the product will get more expensive. But if you also increase the income tax THE COMPANY WILL INCREASE THE PRICE. SO THE POOREST PEOPLE PAY THOSE TAXES.

And things like public "free" education are also a bullshit. They are just taking your money from taxes, stealing a part if it (you need to pay to those who steal it, ministry of education, many other institutions) and giving it to the school. Wouldn't it be cheaper just to pay the school without middlemen?

PEOPLE, PLS. WAKE UP.

The European Union is not stomping on Steam in any way. Like I said you pay the VAT.

9 years ago
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It's incredible how much the people are brainwashed. "Taxation isn't stealing" hah! Taking my money and giving it to others without my consent is okay? We live on a planet full of thieves!

9 years ago
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You don't seem to understand how VAT works, do you?

9 years ago
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In my country people don't work because there is no work, not because people don't want to work.

The only truth you said is that companies don't pay VAT.

9 years ago
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In my country people don't work because there is no work, not because people don't want to work.

The only truth you said is that companies don't pay VAT.

9 years ago
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The only problem I see with this is why the fuck you would pay tax on a digital service. On physical goods sure you have to buy those in person or online and there is an actual object you receive, on a digital purchase it is literately just 0's and 1's. Your country had no affect on the item itself, unlike a shipped item let's say, so why do they deserve any cut of what is sold?

9 years ago
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Why even tax at all then? When money most often is sent and received digitally nowadays?

9 years ago
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"The only problem I see with this is why the fuck you would pay tax on a digital service."

Because services rendered for a price are taxable too, at least in my home country:
http://www.belastingdienst.nl/wps/wcm/connect/bldcontenten/belastingdienst/business/vat/vat_in_the_netherlands/vat_relating_to_services/vat_relating_to_services

And yes, it is a service that is provided at fixed cost, with continuing benefits (since you can delete and re-download, use file hosting for cloud saves & workshop files etc.)

9 years ago
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because this 0s and 1s are a product made by people

9 years ago
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Deleted

This comment was deleted 8 years ago.

9 years ago
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But the VAT goes into your own countries pocket, not to the European Parliament...

9 years ago
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Each country must give EU 1% of their VAT.

So, if you have to pay 20% VAT instead of 15%, that's more money coming to EU too.

9 years ago
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I thought steam was using VAT (aka the price inflating tax which people use as excuse to exploit the RU store)

9 years ago
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Steam already makes you pay VAT. They've just been utilizing a loophole where you pretty much pay the least VAT, instead of what your home country dictates. This loophole is being closed. Calm down.

9 years ago
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This.

9 years ago
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