What do you think?
so basically.. "We should be helping victims of this war. Not only Ukrainians, but also Russians and Belarusians, if they are persecuted for opposing the war." but at the same time, fuck these people, you don't want them in your giveaways?
you hate russians. fine, whatever, at least own it. dont hide behind this bullshit. only thing worse than a racist, is a racist that tries to justify their hatred with bullshit, and there sure seems to be a lot of you on this website lately...
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SG is an international forum and website for gamers all over the world. and the fact that it did not close immediately as Alienwarearena says this if politics comes between people with common interests, in this case it's games, then there is nothing unshakable in this world.
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HAmzPeDoE3Q&ab_channel=1420
For me it is too easy to say now that All Russians are evil and must be shunned.
Some deserve it for sure and you can find them all around the globe.
But you do you.
Now that EU and US have said that they are going to ban Russian oil and gas. ( which I agree with as I don't want my money to fund a country who invades a neighbor.)
I expect the Russian economy to be hit really hard seeing how gas and oil is heart of their economy.
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Well I can't say I like it, but this is really how sanctions work. It's not only about shooting down governments or billionaires, it's also about building dissent among regular citizens until the situation becomes untenable for the leaders in the sanctioned area.
Lets make one thing very clear; Life, is not fair. Only (perhaps) in the local group, for example in your family, or between a few friends, but on a global scale? Absolutely not. Any one claiming so has fallen for a myth. It never has been, it isn't now, it never will be.
But again, I do not like it. I have worked with Russians in the past, and I do know it's not the majority of the people that are ''bad''. Misinformed perhaps, subjugated for sure. Not very unlike Americans they defend their leaders when they drop bombs in other countries without even knowing how to point those countries out on a map, or really the reason why they drop bombs. Nor perhaps, do they care - as they are so far removed from the chain of command on those things.
Also I would like to bring a word of caution here. Sanctions are in place, proper sanctions. But I have not seen any letter calling out for SG to sanction private citizens yet? Let's not make hate the governing emotion here.
Yes, If SG was the leading platform ALL Russian gamers flocked to, then I could see the point of it, but as it is now all this would do is hurt a few kids/youths that wanna join. I don't see that as doing any good at all.
But SG is the givers paradise, you want to have special rules on your GA's, then that is your prerogative, go right ahead.
Did I say life is not fair to all? Yes, I did say that.
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Of course there are some brave people in Russia who protest against the war, but how many of them? There were just a few thousand people on anti-war demonstrations IN A COUNTRY OF 144 000 000 PEOPLE! If my country had attacked anyone, the government wouldn't survive 24 hours, but in Russia, 99% of people are so brainwashed that either support the war, or don't care.
They can arrest thousands, but they cannot arrest millions. If you truly oppose Putin, go to the streets! Until then, enjoy the sanctions.
And it's completely legit to restrict (Bela)RuSSians from entering GAs, if SG has not the balls to ban them. Or you can limit the GAs to Ukrainians only. They are probably not in the mood for playing, but you can show sympathy for them that way.
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1: They have arrested thousands already, in under a week. EVERY ONE of them will see a minimum of 15 years in prison, and most likely never see family and loved ones again for the rest of their lives.
2: The government has very strict rules about what is and is not allowed to be shown or told to the citizens. Reporters can and have been arrested for "spreading misinformation" for showing things the government does not want the citizens to see, such as when the soldiers during a "cease fire agreement" opened fire on a line of CIVILIANS ONLY who were trying to escape.
It's not that "99% of people... support the war or don't care" it's that "99% of people have no idea what's even going on". We should punish those people, because they didn't immediately start protesting in the streets about something they don't even know is happening?
I just watched on the news yesterday a reporter that was interviewing people on the street. You could see military type people standing close by, ready to arrest the reporter the moment they said anything wrong. The reporter had cards, and was ONLY allowed to read what was on those cards. Literally every person he interviewed thought that the Russian government had been ASKED to intervene, that they were ONLY targeting the very tiny number of places where they had been asked to intervene, that the Russians were creating "safety corridors" so any civilians that wished to could escape, and that NO CIVILIAN HAD DIED (remember when I mentioned soldiers specifically targeting civilians trying to escape, which was captured on live TV?) only military people who were somehow oppressing the very civilians that Russia claimed they were allowing to escape without injury.
This is not Russians supporting the war. This is Russians not being allowed to know that there even IS a war (it's only a "limited engagement"), let alone all the war crimes that are being committed literally EVERY DAY. And you want to punish them for that.
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1) You cannot win a revolution if you are afraid of imprisonment. France would still be a kingdom if everybody was like that.
2) Russia is not isolated like North Korea (yet). They can still find objective news on the internet if they try a little bit. But they don't care, they consume official propaganda and are dumb enough to believe it.
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1) The revolution is arranged by those who are dissatisfied with the current government. as soon as there are a lot of such discontented people, a revolution can begin. And it is necessary to see the enemy, it is difficult to go a revolution against what is not visible. At the same time, the people are satisfied, even if not completely, with the current government and do not really want to change it. And the 90 years have not yet worn off for everyone when the collapse of the USSR and the subsequent collapse occurred, because they understand that it will be the same or worse, but not as normal now. There is a job and you don't have to think where to get money to feed your family.
2) After it has not been said since 2014 about the shelling on the territory of Ukraine in the area of Horlivka, then after such sources of information will be considered last. In the media, you can tell the truth, but shift the emphasis and now a completely different result has been obtained. If you do this all the time, then this source of information will be looked at as idiots. And most people evaluate the picture, not by a small piece, about which there is a question, but the whole picture.
Let's remember the poor Skripals. The Times shows a picture of how, in special protection from biological threats, he walks around the bench where the Skripals were allegedly poisoned, but the guards in the form of simple policemen stand unprotected at a distance of 10 meters, although this poison is dangerous in an area within a radius of 50 meters, as the reporter who is reporting from the scene just said, and the reporter himself without a respirator and climbs to the bench. How does he treat the Times after that, if not clowns. A couple of such reports and they get a label - "Clown" and they don't believe them anymore.
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We are watching the finalization of George Orwell's 1984 take place. The world will be split into 3 zones that are eternally at war, with extremely limited communication and mobility between the zones. Divide & Conquer. Just like Afghanistan or Iraq, this war is not meant to be won by either side.
By taking part in the global elite's games of dividing the world populations, you are helping create a nightmarish future.
It's unbelievable how people cannot see what the end goal is...
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You're not wrong. And it amazes me too how this is being ignored currently. But I'm not convinced that it's entirely intentional - at least not on the part of the western based global elite/leaders. I think much of their decisions are driven by shortsightedness, short term political and economic self interest and inexperience/incompetence. Russia and China, on the other hand, are playing the long game and have planned this very carefully, have already made their deals and are forming a bloc - and yet, none of our leaders seem to be paying much attention to that or seem at all worried about it.
It's a terrifying, Orwellian alliance that didn't need to happen, but did, because the west continued to isolate Russia following the fall of the USSR, in a similar way that the world isolated the Weimar Republic and allowed it to stew alone in its economic ruin. And, of course, look how that turned out. It was inevitable that another strong man authoritarian regime would arise from such conditions, and yet it seems that there are still people who insist on being shocked and appalled that the Russian people would let this happen as if we also didn't let this happen - and then suggest even further isolation as a remedy/punishment, even when we know from history that is a proven recipe for disaster. It's as if the lessons of WW2 have been forgotten entirely.
As you imply, only discourse gives hope of changing any of this. Even the Putin supporters should be heard - they come here to argue their case with people from outside their sphere who disagree vehemently with them. But maybe in the course of those arguments, they learn something they wouldn't otherwise have known or even come to shift their viewpoint. Locking them out as the OP suggests, along with all Russians and Belarusians just locks them all more securely in the thought prisons that their leaders are currently building for them.
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We shouldn't punish all of them just because they were born there. I don't support the witch hunt for towards directly for Russian people instead of actions against Russian Federation state. Also restricting ordinary people to access game giveaways on this site wouldn't effect Putin even a tiny bit.
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Neither election results or public opinions polls are reliable sources of information about Russian people's mind if the country we speak is Russia. I may agree on third, but again I'm oppose to banning Russians all together.
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so russians winning giveaways is not going to cut off tax revenue from putin, which is the main goal of sanctions. now if we discover that putin and his oligarch friends have steam accounts, i would support banning them, but otherwise i don't think this would help.
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massacres_of_Poles_in_Volhynia_and_Eastern_Galicia
Those savages butchered my great-grandparents and my grandfather's siblings with axes and knives. Just because they happened to own a piece of land and were Polish. He saw it all and still remembers everything. I do not really care what happens to them now. That nation got what they deserved.
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I know our history. If I was just looking for an excuse in our past to hate someone, I would surely have more reasons to hate Ukrainians, than Russians (which some crybabies insinuate here). But, no, I don't believe, that children and grandchildren necessarily carry the sins of their parents and grandparents.
I do however agree, with a person, that currently wrote in our social media:
No matter, what has been dividing us in the past and what may divide us in the future, if today we are not ready to stand with Ukraine, tomorrow we may wake up with nobody standing with us, when we are forced to become Russians. Those, that are unable to understand this, are acting against Poland. Glory to Ukraine!
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A small clarification. According to your link, you can see that UPA representatives are involved in this, and these are not future representatives of Russia, but just representatives of Ukraine. And here just there are their new followers in the form of Azov, with whom the struggle is taking place on the territory of Ukraine. That's so that there won't be any new such churchyards later, then the operation is underway. And here the problem is that they were just being restored for the sake of attacking Russia, but it didn't work out very well. Although they saw it, but here they thought it would be like in 1937. Here, apparently, it didn't really work out to remember about the story.
If you think that I am against Ukrainians, Poles and other nationalities, then there is a mistake, I have nothing against them, as long as they act in the legal field.
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As many others have said, I have no intention of punishing individual people for something their government does when they have zero involvement in it. They can't even protest it, there have been thousands of people arrested for doing exactly that, looking at a MINIMUM 15 year sentence. The Russian government is also cracking down on any news organizations that report anything other than the state-backed propaganda, again with MINIMUM 15 year sentences for "spreading misinformation" (even if they can PROVE they are speaking the truth, like when they had video of Russian soldiers firing at a line of fleeing civilians that the Russian government claims they're allowing to leave peacefully, it goes against the narrative therefore it's fake news)
The ones that are spreading the obviously false propaganda that the Russian government has been spreading, like somebody I saw earlier saying that Ukraine wasn't even a legitimate country (hint: a single country doesn't get to make that decision), I have no problem BlackListing... but I'm not going to punish an entire country for the actions of only a few people. I live in the USA, and there have been FAR more USA citizens making wild and unsubstantiated claims than I have seen Russians doing so far. Should everybody from the USA be sanctioned and blacklisted because we have a few nutjobs?
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"I'm posting from a second account. First, I've been here for a long time. but I don't want to burn my account. you are too evil people."
Sure... and we should trust you 100%, especially taking into the account, that you are cheating here, using your 2nd account not only to post comments, but also to enter and win GAs. Reported.
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First of all, I have to say that I don't agree with OP. Obviously, SteamGifts should not prevent people from Russia and Belarus to enter gibs/access the site.
With that said... goddamn, how the hell did you manage to win Man of Medan with a newly-created second account!? From a level 0 public giveaway, no less. Wow. Do you realize how lucky you are? O_o I must be well over 15 giveaways entered, still no luck. lol
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I'm against sanctions, they mostly just end up hurting ordinary people . Look at sanctions against Yemen, Syria, Afghanistan, Iran etc they didn't have the desired effect but resulted in millions of starving children and people unable to get access to medicine.
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Obviously, it's time for me to take another break from SG.
I am dismayed by how little our community cares about Ukrainians and how much it cares about poor Russians living their cozy lives under their oppressive (and criminal) regime. I'm also dismayed, how easily otherwise sensible people fall into russian propaganda stereotype, that everyone trying to oppose rashism must be a russophobe. Which I am not. I am however an anti-fascist, no matter if we talk about folks glorifying nazi war criminals or folks actively or passively supporting Putin's rashism and invasion of Ukraina.
It's hard for me to believe, that if we were talking about September of 1939, when Germany started the WWII invading Poland (or July of 1941, when according to Russia the WWII began), so many of you would as well argue, that sanctions about poor German citizens are unjustified, because they have no way to oppose Hitler and are oppressed by nazi regime, and that they would have no other effect, but to cause uncalled for hardship on those people, many of whom are opposed to their regime.
If that's, how you see the current situation, then you are either supporting Putin and rashism or there is something really messed up in your thinking. For all I know, in all those years nazis never got even close to getting 50% national support in 3rd Reich, and now most of you are willing to fight against oppressive sanctions directed against innocent Russians, when according to every source, when the invasion of Ukraine began, well over 50% (probably close to 65-70%) of russian citizens have supported Putin's war. Also, well over 50% of them believes, that after dealing with Ukraina, Russia should deal in a similar manner with "the threat posed to it" by, among others, Poland, Moldova and Baltic States. Because, according to rashism, Russia has the right to regain their imperial influence on at least the whole territory of the former Soviet empire and semi-occupied Warsaw Pact countries.
A week ago in my town there was a demonstration against the russian invasion of Ukraina, organized by Russians living in Poland. Unfortunately, I didn't know about it at that time, because if I knew, I would be there to support them and thank them. As I will try to support and help any Russian actively opposing Putin and rashism. Actually, if you are opposed to Putin and you want to flee the threat of being conscripted into russian military, if you are able to reach polish borders directly from russian or belarussian territory, I may be able to help you gain a political asylum in Poland. But if you live in Russia or you are a russian citizen, and you are you are not willing to actively oppose the Putin's regime, then in my opinion you are also responsible for the actions of your country, so sanctions limiting your access to any kind of luxury goods (and games are certainly not a basic necessity) are fully justified and in current situation necessary.
This should however never impact the free flow of information. Actually I'm also dismayed by opportunism and lack of courage of publishers blocking sales of their games in Russia. They should never do so themselves. They should have forced Putin's regime to do this, by patching their games with messages condemning russian invasion of Ukraina (like unskippable intro, when you first start the game). But this, ofc, could lead to their games being permanently banned in Russia, while stopping their sales now, they can be pretty sure to be able to resume them shortly. So, yes, a lot of those sanctions in just a PR bullshit :( .
It's true and unfortunate, that I've been imprecise in my OP - it was pretty obvious to me, that I'm speaking about blocking access to GAs, not to discussions. But even ignoring this, maybe my original proposal has also been flawed. Possibly, it could be a better solution not to limit the access to GAs to anybody, but to make it necessary for every winner to agree with a statement condemning the russian invasion before claiming any win. Each time and everyone. But reading the answers in this thread I don't see anyone (sorry if I missed a post or 2) trying to find a better solution to the one, that I've proposed, and except the not so many people, that agree with me, I see almost all the rest seemingly caring much more about not harming the "poor, self-oppressed, innocent Russians", than about trying to help the Ukraina. Unfortunately, my personal reward for the best answer here has to go Glorow.
Sadly, I must end with 1 more controversial statement. To those of you, that have blacklisted me over this thread or will do so (which I fully expected to happen), I have just 1 request: Please, never remove me from your blacklist, because I'm not able to trace and blacklist all of you. Well, all except one person from Ukraine, that probably has totally misunderstood, what I was writing about.
Take care and don't get yourself killed, neither by war nor by COVID. And just make sure, that you will not be ashamed of yourself, when all of this is over. One day, probably in a year or so, when Ukraina is once again at peace and regains all of its territory, and when Putin is no longer ruling Russia, I will be back here, hopefully finding all of my friends here as well.
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Possibly, it could be a better solution not to limit the access to GAs to anybody, but to make it necessary for every winner to agree with a statement condemning the russian invasion before claiming any win
Unintentionally hilarious
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I am dismayed by how little our community cares about Ukrainians
I'm confused how you came to that conclusion? Sales supporting Ukraine are shared all the time, and a lot of users are buying and giving away games from them. The Ukraine support thread has a lot of supportive comments as well. And I've been seeing blue and yellow everywhere.
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I am dismayed by how little our community cares about Ukrainians
Ah yes, our community of Humble Choice subscribers and Humble Choice naysayers, Trump supporters and Trump haters, abortion enjoyers and abortion opponents, gifters, leeches, bots and hoarders - in addition from the whole world. Sounds like a perfect place to expect a unified voice, waiting to rise up to call to action.
Other than that, I have 3 takes:
1) If lots of people dislike what you are saying, perhaps it's not something wrong with the people. Reflect on that and make your own conclusions. Maybe you're wrong, or maybe you're right. Maybe you need to express your opinions in evironment more receptive to such takes. Who knows what you'll come up with.
2) In a roundabout way, you got what you were asking for. A bunch of people excluded you from access to their giveaways based on the fact that you supported an action they deemed harmful.
If that's, how you see the current situation, then you are either supporting Putin and rashism or there is something really messed up in your thinking
3) Despite having an opinion being an analogue of mortal disease for one's internet social life nowadays, everyone has one (or more). Some people may blacklist you over this, but me, and many others won't, even if we disagree on a topic like this one, similarly to not wanting to exclude someone just because they live in Russia or Belarus. Differences between us did, do, and will keep existing .
If in any way you consider this behaviour preferable to the one from point 2), I ask that you give us the same courtesy, instead of writing off whole community at once (like cited above)
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I like your point, but shouldnt the US also be blocked from this site due to our multiple illegal wars across the world?
err... i mean "police actions" and "humanitarian pursuits"...
The US also sends military equipment to Saudi Arabia who is committing its own atrocities.
Overall it's the governments doing these things, and have little to nothing to do with the general populace.
How would blocking the people of Russia from this site, affect Ukraine in a positive way?
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(EDIT March 21st)
Obviously, it's time for me to take another break from SG.
I am dismayed by how little our community cares about Ukrainians and how much it cares about poor Russians living their cozy lives under their oppressive (and criminal) regime. I'm also dismayed, how easily otherwise sensible people fall into russian propaganda stereotype, that everyone trying to oppose rashism must be a russophobe. Which I am not. I am however an anti-fascist, no matter if we talk about folks glorifying nazi war criminals or folks actively or passively supporting Putin's rashism and invasion of Ukraina.
It's hard for me to believe, that if we were talking about September of 1939, when Germany started the WWII invading Poland (or July of 1941, when according to Russia the WWII began), so many of you would as well argue, that sanctions about poor German citizens are unjustified, because they have no way to oppose Hitler and are oppressed by nazi regime, and that they would have no other effect, but to cause uncalled for hardship on those people, many of whom are opposed to their regime.
If that's, how you see the current situation, then you are either supporting Putin and rashism or there is something really messed up in your thinking. For all I know, in all those years nazis never got even close to getting 50% national support in 3rd Reich, and now most of you are willing to fight against oppressive sanctions directed against innocent Russians, when according to every source, when the invasion of Ukraine began, well over 50% (probably close to 65-70%) of russian citizens have supported Putin's war. Also, well over 50% of them believes, that after dealing with Ukraina, Russia should deal in a similar manner with "the threat posed to it" by, among others, Poland, Moldova and Baltic States. Because, according to rashism, Russia has the right to regain their imperial influence on at least the whole territory of the former Soviet empire and semi-occupied Warsaw Pact countries.
A week ago in my town there was a demonstration against the russian invasion of Ukraina, organized by Russians living in Poland. Unfortunately, I didn't know about it at that time, because if I knew, I would be there to support them and thank them. As I will try to support and help any Russian actively opposing Putin and rashism. Actually, if you are opposed to Putin and you want to flee the threat of being conscripted into russian military, if you are able to reach polish borders directly from russian or belarussian territory, I may be able to help you gain a political asylum in Poland. But if you live in Russia or you are a russian citizen, and you are you are not willing to actively oppose the Putin's regime, then in my opinion you are also responsible for the actions of your country, so sanctions limiting your access to any kind of luxury goods (and games are certainly not a basic necessity) are fully justified and in current situation necessary.
This should however never impact the free flow of information. Actually I'm also dismayed by opportunism and lack of courage of publishers blocking sales of their games in Russia. They should never do so themselves. They should have forced Putin's regime to do this, by patching their games with messages condemning russian invasion of Ukraina (like unskippable intro, when you first start the game). But this, ofc, could lead to their games being permanently banned in Russia, while stopping their sales now, they can be pretty sure to be able to resume them shortly. So, yes, a lot of those sanctions in just a PR bullshit :( .
It's true and unfortunate, that I've been imprecise in my OP - it was pretty obvious to me, that I'm speaking about blocking access to GAs, not to discussions. But even ignoring this, maybe my original proposal has also been flawed. Possibly, it could be a better solution not to limit the access to GAs to anybody, but to make it necessary for every winner to agree with a statement condemning the russian invasion before claiming any win. Each time and everyone. But reading the answers in this thread I don't see anyone (sorry if I missed a post or 2) trying to find a better solution to the one, that I've proposed, and except the not so many people, that agree with me, I see almost all the rest seemingly caring much more about not harming the "poor, self-oppressed, innocent Russians", than about trying to help the Ukraina. Unfortunately, my personal reward for the best answer here has to go Glorow.
Sadly, I must end with 1 more controversial statement. To those of you, that have blacklisted me over this thread or will do so (which I fully expected to happen), I have just 1 request: Please, never remove me from your blacklist, because I'm not able to trace and blacklist all of you. Well, all except one person from Ukraine, that probably has totally misunderstood, what I was writing about.
Take care and don't get yourself killed, neither by war nor by COVID. And just make sure, that you will not be ashamed of yourself, when all of this is over. One day, probably in a year or so, when Ukraina is once again at peace and regains all of its territory, and when Putin is no longer ruling Russia, I will be back here, hopefully finding all of my friends here as well.
=================
(Original, unedited post)
As long as SG does not block Russian and Belarusian residents and there is no final peace treaty between Ukraine and Russia, all my GAs will be region restricted, with possibility to enter them form Russia and Belarus blocked. If any of the groups, that I'm in, will find this unacceptable, I will suspend my membership in that group.
We should be helping victims of this war. Not only Ukrainians, but also Russians and Belarusians, if they are persecuted for opposing the war.
We should (and we do) accept women, children and elderly refugees from Ukraine, but also accept objectors from Russia and Belarus, if they are fleeing military service or danger of being drafted there.
At the same time however we should apply sanctions against Russian and Belarusian nationals, as long as they are in their countries or as long as they do not unequivocally condemn the war, while living abroad. Mostly we do. Not many of us would argue, that a Russian athlete should be allowed to take part in an international competition, just because that person possibly does not support Putin and is against the war. It's very sad, that we have to make someone not only uncomfortable, but possibly break their dreams, but that's the only way in which we can not only protest, but also help those people oppressed by their regimes, to free themselves.
I know, what I'm talking about. I'm from Poland and I have lived through this. In 1981, after "Solidarity" has been crushed by the communist regime declaration of Martial Law, we were subjected to very strong sanctions. Vast majority of folks, that were trying to actively oppose the government, were not only supporting them, but even asking for those sanctions to be expanded. Protests against them were coming from those, that were the government's supporters, and from significant part of those, who decided to care about their day to day life, and not about any principles, freedoms and folks arrested and imprisoned. But with time results of those very sanctions have actually made them more active. If those sanctions have not been placed and maintained for a long time, in 1988-1989 most likely we would not be the first country to break out of the Soviet camp.
Sanctions are not only the only message of condemnation, that Kremlin can't suppress for a prolonged time, but also a tool to turn those, that are passive, against their government. And usually, most people are passive, as long as they are reasonably comfortable.
Hearing, that we are not at war here (meaning SG, as it's been later explained), I can only see it as a way to preserve our own zone of comfort by avoiding taking the stand, that we easily can. I'm convinced, that SG should join the sanctions and block Russian and Belarusian residents for as long, as there is no final peace treaty between Ukraine and Russia. As long as it doesn't, I will apply those sanctions to my GAs. I hope, that I will not be the only one doing so.
Sadly a very cheap potato train, lvl 2, 1 week, minor bot protection in the link (all games are from Fanatical Dollar Chronicle Bundle, nothing more left in my reserve after the recent still running Cakeday train).
And sorry to my Russian and Belarusian friends here (not really sure, who you are, I rarely check nationalities here, even if shown on Steam profiles, but sure some of you are from there). I can only say, that I hope for Putin to be overthrown and for things to be back to normal in a very short time. Because, if this doesn't happen fast, then the new Cold War will last for a long time... possibly till the end of mankind, as we know it :(.
Freedom and Victory for Ukraine!
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