Which option do you prefer?
Because magically it can't be done this way. Google doesn't explain how exactly this service works, but apparently it can't be done by a simple script.
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I think that it's recording mouse path on it and check if it wasn't too precise, i.e jump of the cursor to x.y, fixed speed or acceleration, path too straight or too smooth, way too much precise timings (it would be weird if user clicked on button in exactly 1ms or 100ms after pointing the checkbox), etc.
It may also record path that you've made with your mouse, store it and compare with previous records to check if it wasn't too similar.
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its simplier and scarrier, your internet browsing history and cokies!
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Bots can't run javascript code, the check is made in javascript, thus they cannot execute it.
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Naaah, I value convenience above that. Plus, the current deterrent from botting is the points system.
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The points system is important, but it doesn't prevent people from using scripts. One script has more than 5500 users (according to Google Play), and their Steam Group has 2300 members. A simple checkbox can prevent all of them from abusing the system.
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I'm on the steam group but I don't use that function.
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I believe people have made group giveaways on SG and SC for the group which is a reason for lots of people joining it.
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I used easy sg on the past version for easy comment formating and forum endless scrolls.
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Maybe if it was optional. I wouldn't mind clicking it if I had to, but probably wouldn't use it myself.
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How would that make sense? It would either have to be for everyone or else what's the point?
The bots would just opt out obviously, thus defeating the entire point :P
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Makes perfect sense...I wouldn't use it in my giveaways.
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Ah, optional for the giveaway creator, gotcha. For some reason I thought you meant have it as an account option for people entering and it made no sense to me haha! Disregard my brainlessness :)
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Oh naw yea that would make no sense :P. I just find a level requirement enough.
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There are quite a few people on this site who code. I'd give it a month, two tops, before someone comes up with a workaround and shares it and then we're back at square one except wasting a shit-ton of time, effort, and throughput on a bunch of useless captchas. Your error is in assuming people all have to buy fancy scripts instead of just writing them.
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If no one managed to develop a generic bypass for Google's solution, what makes you think one of the users here (who happens to code) would? It's not that simple apparently.
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You said in the OP that there are (or may be) paid services that can bypass it. Are there or aren't there? Because if one person has found a way to defeat it, then there's no reason to think someone else can't.
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The reason I wrote "may" is because I don't know but can't rule it out. I do know that there are paid services like deathbycaptcha.com who use human solvers for captchas their OCR cannot solve. Once actual humans are part of the solution, detecting that one is not a human should be difficult (because humans are involved). The problem is, humans don't work for free.
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I see. Well, if it's undefeatable that's one thing. I'm not convinced it is, but I won't contest the point. It still represents a marginal benefit at best for what seems to be an unacceptable cost to many, looking at some of the other comments. It's not like it would exclude the people using those bots from any of the more popular giveaways anyway. Those are the first ones they'll enter manually if necessary. The whole thing is kind of a wash, really. You might get slightly better odds on some less popular titles in public giveaways, if that.
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I think you don't understand what this is. Sites 100x bigger than this use that google's captcha system, and have 0 troubles with botting.
Is your solution to sit on your ass and do nothing allowing bots to continue destroy this website? "May be" and "private" means a lot. Firstly he is not sure. Secondly its private. PRIVATE. Meaning there's no source code, and someone is selling the tool for hundreds/thousands in the underground forums. So no, some kid who developed lame and simple script won't get his hands on it, especially reverse engineer it so he could use that code in his lame script for botting this site.
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Why don't you stop sitting on your butt and build your own site with whatever features you want instead of complaining about this one. You could also make your giveaways behind ItsTooHard or other puzzles if you are so concerned. I bet support has much bigger issues than a few automated bots entering giveaways, besides its not like people wouldnt spend the 2 minutes a day spending points if they were required to.
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Oh, wow, such a great idea. So shallow...
Next time you have some sort of issue, or a problem in life, don't complain or mention it to anyone and go implement your own solution. So if you are ill and coughing blood, don't go to doctors. Don't go to the pharmacy. Solve it yourself. Make your own medicine. Fix your own body. Can't even say with straight face, your logic.... Well there's no logic at all...
Speaking of leaving the site (which you are trying to imply I should do), how about you leave? At least I am not a leecher like you.
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There is no real issue or problem, but judging from other comments real people have problems with these types of checks with the browsers/devices they use. So your solution would punish those that are honest and actively trying to use the site to block a few bots, in which the user would still be able to use the site manually...
While I don't use the bots, I don't see a ton of harm either. The bots don't give them god-like powers, they can only enter giveaways they could enter manually. Its just that they don't have to browse the site 24/7. If all I wanted to do was enter random giveaways to dump my points like the bots I could spend all of maybe 30s twice a day, to ensure I don't cap. Little more work and maybe 5-10 minutes a day, depending on how judicious I want to be, and I'll be able to check more often to ensure better odds and/or games I'd prefer to play.
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Well, with this point I can agree. Though hardly to be honest, since Google always try to be very compatible, as I never had any problems on firefox/chrome/opera/safari or even on android or or apple's iOS iPhones.
But I guess it could be an issue for a lot older mobile phones. But I would think it would be many people, probably 1% if not less, not to mention they can just use PC, surely they are not browsing all the time on such an old phone for fun all day, a phone which can't even verify captcha.
But this isn't for us to decide about this, however debunking OP's suggestion how that Support assistant did is very narrow minded, as he stated such things which indicated he hasn't even looked into it and didn't give it any real consideration.
And it is quite a big deal, I mean people won't sit here 24/7 and enter giveaways. So if they couldn't use bots, there would be less entries and more chances for other regular members to win, who actually spend LIMITED time on this site.
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Someone mentioned that in China the checker is blocked, so there is an entire country with ~1/7th the world's population that would be blocked from this site. True, I highly doubt that 1/7th of the SG is from there, but that is a rather large potential amount of people.
As long as a person checks regularly, most days twice is more than sufficient, then they won't cap. There are occasions where I've capped overnight due to popular bundles but that hasn't happened for some time, at least for me. This means that there is virtually no difference in entries. The bots could add the benefit of entering short giveaways of the game the person wants instead of simply dumping points into a random game so they don't cap, potentially taking it from someone who would actually play the game. While you may say these short giveaways reward those that are more active, they don't distinguish those that just happen to check at the right moment.
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http://www.steamgifts.com/stats/community/regions
China is ~11k users, so yeah that is a lot of people >.<
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You failed to address the real problem with this idea, which is that even if it succeeds perfectly, literally all it will have accomplished is making botters enter things normally. It won't actually change anything except making entering giveaways more difficult for everyone, whether they're botters or not. I think punishing everyone just to make sure you punished the few people who deserved it is immoral, myself.
Edit: Also, you might want to avoid ridiculously dramatic pronouncements like saying that botters are 'destroying this website.' It makes it hard to take you seriously.
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No single program/script is undefeatable. It is just that this one is so hard to defeat that no one has managed yet. But I'm sure that someday (maybe this year, maybe over ten years, who knows) somebody is going to crack it. But so far no one has managed to (and they probably patch it if someone does).
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@Dnomyar96 please quote me where I even hinted or implied otherwise. Trust me, I do programming for a living so I'm pretty sure I know more than a lot of people here about this kind of thing.
But thanks for your "debunk" even though I never even hinted at what you are implying I said.
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Sorry, I put my comment on the wrong place, my fault.
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AND LETS ADD SUPER HARD CAPTCHAS SO WE HAVE MORE CHANCES TO WIN THE GIVEAWAYS !!!!!!!
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Nah... I just create and enter private giveaways, so this thing would be pointless and a bother rather than anything else.
Maybe for public giveaways only, but otherwise, nope.
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Maybe if it used the new burger and bacon Captcha and you only needed to enter it once every 30 minutes or so.
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if it was an option the the giveaway poster could choose to utilise on their giveaways i don't see why this wouldn't be worth it.
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This is like the voter fraud debate in the US. Something like .1% of votes are suspicious, yet we suddenly have a HUGE problem and need to invest millions of dollars in combating it. Same thing here. Maybe 2% of the user base uses a script to enter giveaways, yet it seems like EVERY gifter is complaining about botters and looking for solutions to this problem.
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As long as there's no captchas, those things muddle my brain. :)
I hadn't noticed the bot entries until recently, when I'd created simultaneous giveaways and the GA's had identical responses by the exact same users. I also did another giveaway where I asked people entering not to enter if they already owned a similar version of the game. Out of curiosity, I checked to see how many people entering owned the game... I'd say at least a third owned it and probably hadn't read my message. I was happy the person who won, didn't own it.
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OperaMini-users like me will suffer. Due to the simplicity of SteamGifts I can join giveaways even on my Nokia C1-00 but with Captchas it would be impossible.
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I wonder if implementing this would increase server load >.<
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Aside from the little headache to implement this >_<
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hell no. that captcha thing is so broken in so many sites, at least on chrome. i can't even buy stuff on humble because of it using chrome, have to buy with firefox just because captcha thinks i am a robot
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Wait wait... Are you saying google captcha doesn't work with google browser? rofl xdd Nice one, google!
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That's weird, HB works flawlessly and I'm also using Chrome o.O version 44.0.2403.157 m. is it possible that your isn't up to date? Or did you angered the Google Gods in some way?
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probably the second. it would be ludicrous if it was a common problem with chrome. my guess would be wierd addons or wierd google cookie history / account history.
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If they added that I would quit using this website and I have manually entered almost 30,000 GAs over the years.
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I CAN OUTDO YOU WITH LARGE FONT, BOLD, ALLCAPS AND MULTIPLE EXCLAMATION MARKS!!!!!!!!!
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That not-a-robot button is a real lottery, and very browser dependent. I've had a few good runs of a week or two where nearly all the buttons worked, but even then, using a lot of Recaptchas in a single day can upset things. Currently Google/Recaptcha hates all 'real' (non-Chromium) Opera browsers, and makes me spend 2 minutes identifying street signs and cabbage, only to give me a block of text to copy and paste into a form which may or may not even have a submit button. Just because the button always works for you, with your browser, your IP, and your usage patterns, do not assume it will only inconvenience bots.
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I would love to see only humans entering giveaways, by hand, for games they actually want to play. But I don't think you can create a foolproof robot-block, and the better you are at defeating the robots, the more frustrating you will make things for the few remaining humans. :)
I've tried some ideas to block the illiterate and/or inanimate... :)
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/guOPL/titanfall-the-final-hours
http://www.steamgifts.com/giveaway/susS7/the-flock
My conclusion? Most people can't read. And there's nothing you can do about it. :)
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Are you sure such bots exist? I don't think.
The best thing to improve the "quality" of users who enter a giveaway is to decrease the number of points available.
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I'm afraid they do exist. :( There's one with its own Steam group.
Somehow, every time I spot one of its users puking up their generic auto-thanks in a giveaway they deny using it. :) Oh no, I'm in that group for the cake. And I typed all 10000 identical comments by hand, every single time. :)
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It's actually a script, and one of the most prominent user group using one type of the script are the users of Easy SteamGifts Chrome extension. It's also the most successful one to add auto-commenting when entering. Although it's just the most called-up and frowned-upon of its features and people forget that SG v2's convenience features like the filter button were stolen from it. (You can call it the BTTV of SG, if you are on Twitch to get the reference. :))
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Those features were taken from the original SteamGiftsPlus, written by a former staff member. It was the original SG all-in-one userscript. The new SG++ is its replacement, written by the people who maintained the previous version after the original author left the site. All others imitated it, some adding other features. In this case, the only features added were the ones everyone hates it for, which is why it has such a bad reputation.
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I never understood the bad reputation though. I can count the meaningful descriptions I ever encountered on one hand. Most are "I'll blacklist if you say thanks/don't say thanks/any random reason to blacklist" or "shameless self-advertising of channel X or greenlight shlock Y" ones.
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Yes, public giveaways tend to have pretty sad comment sections. If this is the script I think it is, I recall when it was posted in the forum and the guy got a lot of flak, which is silly, because someone was going to make something like this eventually anyway. It's like people who get mad at whoever made SAM. Someone was going to do it, and blaming them for what other people do with it that you don't like is absurd. I'm just explaining the situation and maybe giving a little SG history lesson, not trying to start a witchhunt over a script or anything.
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It seems unlikely that a mere check box would really stop a dedicated script, though if it would that would be great. This seems worth a try.
Is there some better idea for stopping bots? Several people above sounded like they might have something in mind.
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Why do you have to be so discriminating towards robots?
Poor robots :(
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I don't mind if the robots are going to activate the games they win. But, as a group, they seem inclined to re-gift their winnings to certain users in clear violation of site policy.
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Well, in that case, there are already rules in place to deal with them. They'll get suspended, and then banned. We don't need special discriminatory rules specifically targeting robots!
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Let them bot, the still gonna enter the giveaway and the odds are that low that it makes no difference whatsoever. People are making way to much of a fuss over it.
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While I think you're right, there's much less of them compared to number of legit joiners, you just get sad when someone who wins your giveaway regifts it right away with "I won it, but it's not game for me" description.
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That's against the rules anyway, and can get the winner suspended and/or banned if caught.
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This has nothing to with regifters though. Its a bot/script bitchfest.
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Winner was bot/scripter, as he was joining giveaways randomly and after winning deciding if he'll play it or should he regift.
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You might have had thisissue but OP was talking about entering, not winning or re gifting.
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Yeah, I know. Just saying it's sad when you not only get auto-joiner, he's jerky enough to regift whatever he won.
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In my opinion it'd be smarter to use something like SolveMedia and monetize the CAPTCHA inputs so it actually makes money instead of costing money.
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This service from Google is free, simple to implement and easy for humans to use. Just click the checkbox, wait a second and you're done. There's no generic way bypass it, but there may be paid services that can. Even if there are, it's very unlikely that anyone is going to pay just to be able to join a giveaway and get a tiny chance of winning. After all, giveaways typically have hundreds and sometimes thousands of other entries, so it's most likely money down the drain. It will becomes cheaper to simply use this money to buy the games.
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