You make these threads almost as if you're begging me to make a pun out of your name. I swear you do :P
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Androgyny and Intersex individuals regularly don't use male/female pronouns, in favor of gender-neutral terms (they, them, their, etc) and, similarly, any other non-binary/non-cis gender (such as Gender-Fluid and Transgender individuals) may also potentially favor such non-restrictive terms of reference. [Check the top right corner of the first link for more gender reference pages.] In less specific terms, there's three gender categorizations- male, female, and "people who don't meet the typical conceptions of either gender", be those conceptions social or physical.
"His or Her" is the historically correct grammatical form for referencing an unknown gender, but as gender-neutral terms are fully inclusive, they're starting to come to more frequent usage as an alternative.
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It's actually a misconception that singular "they" has historically always been considered incorrect. Grammarians only really started caring about using "his or her" (or, more commonly, just "his"; "his or her" itself only became correct style in--get this--the 1970s) instead of singular "they" in the late 18th century; that was when they (heh) became obsessed with making English conform to Latin grammar rules. There have been people advocating for the usage of "they" as a singular gender-neutral pronoun (and/or for creating new sets of singular gender-neutral pronouns) for centuries. It's only been relatively recently that the issue has entered the spotlight, so to speak, because there are more people openly identifying as non-binary.
There's a great (albeit very long) article here which goes into the history of gender-neutral pronouns in English from 1792 to 1992.
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It's actually a misconception that singular "they" has historically always been considered incorrect.
I never indicated such, and have actually covered the topic you're discussing several times in the past. :P
"historical" in my last comment may have been misleading in its implied scope, for which I apologize- I only meant to indicate that Steam's usage matches still-current formal expectations, and then provide contrast of such against the emerging preference for singular they.
As an interesting note, I've actually seen that last article before- or, rather, a variation of it. Some of the details appear to be different, but I don't have the time right now to really contrast to see which is more in-depth. The one I'm familiar with is a bit easier to read, however, due to having an actual page layout. :) Edit: It looks like your history-essay is a continuation of that article, as it's linked at the end of it. (I hadn't noticed, before. >.>)
In any case, I've been trying to shorten my ramblings of late, and I figured blowing someone's mind with the realization that binary genders aren't an actual thing was enough to start with, without going into how such societal misconceptions and manipulations were also reflected within grammar. :P
Worthy topic, though, especially given my own preference for gender-neutral terminology and appreciation of the idea of its normalization of use.
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It's not a problem! I get pretty wordy sometimes too. You'd think that since I write for a living, I might want a break from it in my free time. Apparently not. :P I have friends both IRL and online who are non-binary, so I've learned quite a bit about NB terminology, though I'd hardly call myself an expert. All I know for certain is that (1) my NB friends are great people, and I don't like seeing people mock their gender identities when those identities aren't hurting anyone; and (2) I'm a huge linguistics/languages dork.
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This is interesting ... .
Would I mock someone if by appearance I will call him male or female and he is non-binary and if so why is that ?
Also interesting the terms binary and non-binary.
I don't know if this is similar with CS or not , but binary is 1 and 0 and non-binary is quantum meaning that it is not 0 or 1 or can be both in the same time. This is why the quantum computer is so complicated !
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Most NB people I've met wouldn't think that someone assuming they're male/female would be mocking them. They wouldn't enjoy it, and they'd prefer you just not assume, but since NB issues are new to most people, it's understandable for people to make mistakes sometimes. What they would be upset by is people continuing to refer to them as the wrong gender even after being corrected. I certainly wouldn't appreciate someone insisting on calling me Mr. or Mx. no matter how many times I tell them I'm a Ms.
It's just a waste of time for everyone involved. They have to waste time correcting you, and you have to waste time "correcting" their corrections, when you could be playing video games or something. It's easier to just let people be, even if you don't understand how someone could identify as non-binary. They certainly aren't hurting me any, and not respecting people's gender identities just hurts other people while providing exactly zero benefit to me or anyone else.
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Well this is rather a "complicated" subject. I one like to address a person that I know like in his language for example and I have a lot of foreign friends !
I would not like different genders than the standard 2, I already explained below, I think, maybe I am wrong , that this will do more damage than good !
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But how would it do damage? I'm just not seeing the potential for harm here.
Like, as a random example, I have a good friend who identifies as agender (without a gender/neither male nor female). I make sure to refer to them with the pronoun they prefer and use the name they've chosen for themselves. We talk about games and stuff together. That's...about it. No big deal. I try not to assume people's genders, though it can be a bit hard to get out of the habit. Still no big deal.
Nobody's asking for the entire world to remember every single gender identity ever. They're just asking, if someone tells you "I'm genderfluid and want people to refer to me using the pronoun they" (or whatever identity), to respect that. You don't have to understand how someone could identify as multiple genders at different times. You just have to understand that other people do, and that their gender identities aren't harming you and anyone else, and that you (general you) ought to treat other people with respect even if you don't really get some part of their identity.
All things considered, it's much easier to accept non-binary people for who they are than to put in the effort to try to box them back into simple "male" or "female" boxes...especially considering how many cultures around the world recognize non-binary genders, and how far back the existence of people who don't conform to our traditional male/female dichotomy is.
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As an aside, please don't use "left-handed." It's imposing a label on people against their will. Right-handed people are right-handed. Non-right-handed people are not right-handed. End of story.
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Spoken like a true male who doesn't care about imposing his will upon women... story for the ages.
While it's mildly refreshing to see someone assume that someone with the username "MissMokushiroku" is male, I'm afraid that I am, in fact, a cis woman. Sorry to disappoint you.
This is the kind of shit and awful attitude the transgender movement spews. Good to know you support that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suffragette#Arson.2C_Property_damage_and_domestic_terrorism
Throughout the woman's suffrage movement, many tactics were employed in order to achieve the goals of the movement. Throughout Britain, letters and the letterboxes that contained them were burnt or had acid poured onto them. Places that wealthy people, typically men, would occupy themselves with were also burnt and destroyed, including cricket pitches and horse racing tracks.
The Tea House at Kew Gardens was set alight by Suffragettes Olive Wharry and Lillian Lenton in February 1913 during a series of arson attacks that occurred throughout London. Suffragettes are also believed to have attacked the Orchard house, also at Kew Gardens[26] however no definitive proof was found.
This is the kind of shit and awful attitude the votes-for-women movement spews. Good to know you support that.
In all seriousness, I read the post you linked to. It's rude, angry, and abrasive...but that's about it. I was expecting something like a call to arms for trans people to go out and shoot up women's shelters. Instead I get a couple people venting about someone whom they would later talk things over and make amends with. As someone who once had a guy threaten to rape and murder me because I KO'd his character in a round of 100% Orange Juice, I'm unimpressed.
But, honestly, that's not even the real issue. The issue is that you apparently believe that "the transgender movement" is a hive mind whose sole purpose in life is to call for the subjugation of cis people...because of one rude blog post. Not even a blog post calling for violence, just a rude blog post. Clearly transgender people aren't a hive mind, since I've met and befriended several trans people both online and IRL, including people actively part of "the transgender movement", and not a single one of them has even attempted to put me down for being cis. Ever.
Actually...does it count as subjugation if it's a trans person's D&D character blindly attacking who they think is a monster, but it's actually the party's cleric, who happens to be played by a cis woman (me)? Because that happened once.
All that said, if you want to respond, I'd appreciate it if you would read over the comments I've made in this thread, count how many times I used the word "cis" before you first replied to me, and report back with that number. I'm curious about why you responded to my comment about the history of singular they and other third-person singular pronouns in the English language with a warning about using the word "cis."
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Gotta get with the times, add other, like the clearly ahead of it's time classic Ultima 3, you could choose Male, Female, or Other, no discrimination there lol
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Please select your gender:
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What about on Tuesdays? Why isn't THAT option included?
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Depends, I identify as elderly folks disposable under garments.
Also, yes, I am full of shit, so don't ask.
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To include another lame meme that should have been dead and buried a few years ago already:
Steam only supports 2 genders because Valve can't count to 3 and beyond.
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Nothing's funnier than mocking a random group of people for cheap laughs. Yep. Best joke I've read all day. This is definitely not a joke which was never funny and then got played out anyway. Ha. Ha. Ha.
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"Look at that person, they are unlike me." has been the cornerstone of highbrow comedy since the dawn of time. Yet still so fresh!
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Well, probably should note that you're actually referring to Lowbrow comedy- as Lowbrow is the term which relates itself to self-evident concepts and actions (and thus relates to socially acceptable relationships, or for less worthy representations, outright crudity in addressing non-acceptable relationships), while Highbrow refers to the opposite- relating to intellectual concepts and actions.
Lowbrow is characterized by having mass appeal and easy recognition, while highbrow is characterized by requiring familiarity with the concepts or niche mindset involved, the covering of abstract topics, or the addressing of contemporary social problems.
Or, put more straightforwardly:
Aesthetic standards of low culture stress substance, form and being totally subservient; there is no explicit concern with abstract ideas or even with fictional forms of contemporary social problems and issues. ... Low culture emphasizes morality but limits itself to familial and individual problems and [the] values, which apply to such problems. Low culture is content to depict traditional working class values winning out over the temptation to give into conflicting impulses and behavior patterns.
— Herbert Gans [>>]
Highbrow relates to concepts which are difficult to understand- either because they conflict with social norms, or because they require intellect or education a bit better developed than that expected of the average member of the working class. Put another way, wordplay is associated with highbrow, and fart jokes are associated with lowbrow.
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To be a little more succinct, you realize that I was being ironic/sarcastic/sardonic when calling it high-brow, right? I can't tell if your long-winded response was an attempt to double-down on my throw-away snark or not.
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Given that you used five inappropriately applied terms in that last post- and that's not including your confusion over which form of irony you're actually laying claim to- I'll just note that realizing your intent appears to be as equally difficult with one of your comments as another.
Well, I'll direct my vocabulary clarifications elsewhere, and hopefully you'll similarly not indirectly request them of me in the future.
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Succinct: brief, pithy, clear (I guess you could take issue with the latter).
Ironic: using a word to the opposite of its meaning and/or for mockery
Sarcastic: using irony/cutting commentary generally to show contempt,
Sardonic: generally synonymous with sarcasm but sometimes taken to be more negative
Long-winded:lengthy, tedious (subjective, but a fair assessment of someone defining common words when no one appeared to be confused).
I don't know if these are the five terms given that your comment was only long enough to convey a vague sense of masbutatory self-regard, but I figured I'd take a guess. Please explain. Unless you're under the misapprehension that the above are somehow mutually exclusive terms?
As for intent, I didn't think my sarcasm was terribly subtle in the original message, but I'll grant that tone can be hard to decipher online especially when you don't know the person. With that said, one might read that as a reason to not treat messages as, as you've humorously phrased it, indirect requests for vocabulary clarifications.
I'd bow out and say I won't bother reading your reply as you don't appear interested in speaking to me like I'm a person, but I'm new to this site and don't know how to turn off notifications. So reply with the assured satisfaction of having the last word and having that word read.
Here's a picture of my cacti I took today in my office, a picture to remember this thrilling interaction with, to make things a little less impersonal. I think my favourite (Canadian spelling) is the little dude in the corner. Have a good night.
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+1 all my 13 year old high school friends agree 100% lol
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I mean whats next, we'll let them choose their own partners? Or let them express their opinion?
I'm kidding, please don't shoot me.
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Don't forget alien, sometimes it's hard to decide alien gender
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To address real life cases we need to extend language for new denominations :
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http://www.who.int/genomics/gender/en/index1.html
Developmental biology suggests that a strict belief in absolute sexual dimorphism is incorrect. (42) Instead, Blackless et al. suggest two overlapping bell-shaped curves to conceptualize sexual variations across populations. Qualitative variation in chromosome complement, genital morphology and hormonal activity falls under the area of overlap. (43) Such an opinion challenges the need for medical intervention in cases of intersexuality.
Next time you try to claim that science is on your side, make sure science is actually on your side.
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The link you posted proves his point actually. In the first paragraph it states that the birthrate with any of the Sex Chromosome Abnormalities is 3 in 1000 or approximately 1/3 of 1%. If you either read or skip down to the end of the third paragraph, you will find a link to Sex Chromosome Abnormalities which covers the abnormalities in the first paragraph.
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That proves that intersex people make up a comparatively small portion of the total population. How does it prove that there are only two sexes, when it specifically says later in the article that biological sex is a spectrum where some people are closer to "male", some are closer to "female", and others can't be classified either way?
Why do intersex people have to be common in order to be considered their own biological sex separate from male and female, given that intersex people have different biological characteristics and health needs from both non-intersex males and non-intersex females?
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I didn't say there are only two sexes. Biologically speaking those abnormalities are not common (some would argue normal). The same way that any other birth defect isn't. In fact chromosome abnormalities are less common than most other physical birth defects.
CDC
Edited: wrong link
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I dont quite get what the point is here,,everyone is a mix of X and Y chromosomes,,so technically maybe there should only be one sex...and while im at it what exactly do they want to be called shemen,heshe,guyish,sheish,hemale,femshe,femhe? and what would be the point other then confusing the other 99.9% of the population is this just about getting there own bathroom signs? i mean if you going to do that then technically all redheads are mutants and should also get there own bathroom signs. people are all born with differences some worst then others some considered "normal" others not and whos to say that all these people with abnormal X and Y chromosomes want to be called anything other then a male or female or whatever they are living as,as calling themselves and having to register as a shemen,heshe,guyish,sheish,hemale,femshe,femhe might segregate them even more they they already feel?
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Let me ask you , how do humans reproduce? It is simple by combing the genes of two opposite genders male and female so of course the logical conclusion would be that they are only two standard genders!
Let's go more in depth, what defines female : ovary and ovule and males testicles and spermatozoon ,when there will be other things different from those then we will think about adding another gender !
It doesn't matter that there are exceptions, you don't define generic/standard things for exceptions !
"Why do intersex people have to be common in order to be considered their own biological sex separate from male and female, given that intersex people have different biological characteristics and health needs from both non-intersex males and non-intersex females?"
So what is the problem if they are called male or female, what is the purpose to define a new gender ?
" dont quite get what the point is here,,everyone is a mix of X and Y chromosomes,,so technically maybe there should only be one sex...and while im at it what exactly do they want to be called shemen,heshe,guyish,sheish,hemale,femshe,femhe? and what would be the point other then confusing the other 99.9% of the population is this just about getting there own bathroom signs? i mean if you going to do that then technically all redheads are mutants and should also get there own bathroom signs. people are all born with differences some worst then others some considered "normal" others not and whos to say that all these people with abnormal X and Y chromosomes want to be called anything other then a male or female or whatever they are living as,as calling themselves and having to register as a shemen,heshe,guyish,sheish,hemale,femshe,femhe might segregate them even more they they already feel?"
Finally some one with logical thinking.
What is the point if those are .003% of the population, but hey let us make 1000 genders and when the children are born, hey you know what you gender is #99, you should learn all of them even if maybe in your life you won't encounter none with those genders.
Also the human mind works like this, different means a thread this is driven by instinct so yea let's make someone different so many people will hate him !
Normal is not a good word but standard is, if 49,5 percent are male and 50% are female then yeaaa the two standard genders are male and female !
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"his or her"??? What if that person identifies as another gender? Totally unacceptable!!!!!!!
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