Source

Video announcement from M$

So they screwed up big time with the initial PR in the XbOne, used PCs powered by Nvidia and Win7 at the E3, lied about the always on requirement (saying it was "hardwired" and a necessity), charged 100$USD more than their competition, failed to bring any attention (at least positive) to their new OS....... and this is how they fix it......making Directx 11.2 exlusive.

Btw, one of the main features in DX11.2, is the possibility to basically use RAM memory as if it were VRAM, the same concept used in integrated graphics cards, allowing games to achieve a SCARY amount of detail, whether it's in texture quality, Tesselation, resolution, or raw triangles.

Yay! I just got shafted by M$ for sticking to a stable and trustable OS that is Win7.

1 decade ago*

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Sigh

1 decade ago
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This announcement means absolutely nothing. First of all, how many years after Vista's release was it before a handful of games started requiring DX10? Three? Maybe four? How many games do you know that require DX11? None come to mind. It would be financial suicide for a developer to only support DX11 right now, or DX11.1 or DX11.2 for that matter. So whatever version of DirectX that Windows 8.1 is going to support is absolutely irrelevant to the vast majority of users for the next several years. By the time it matters, I will have already migrated to Windows 9 or 10.

Secondly, DX11.1 and DX11.2 bring absolutely nothing of interest to the table. Remember DX10.1? Yeah, neither does anyone else. Small feature upgrades are not something that developers rush to support. DX11.2 itself is a joke. First of all, the extra video memory means very little since most games aren't exceeding the available memory on modern gaming hardware. If a game is exceeding it then your hardware is already obsolete. What serious gamers are still using 256MB video cards anymore? Besides, has anyone heard of Hypermemory? It's been around for ages, and not just for embedded graphics solutions. It does exactly what DX11.2 does. You don't have it? Well then upgrade to AMD and you will. At the moment I have an HD7870 which is equipped with 2GB of GDDR. My PC also has 32GB of DDR3-1866. I'm certainly not using all that memory for applications but my Catalyst drivers do take advantage of it. Yep I have almost 20GB of video memory, most of it coming from main memory... and nary a Win8.1 in sight. All I needed was Win7 x64 Ultimate Edition so that it can address more than 16GB of installed RAM. You don't have Ultimate Edition? That's ok because every edition of Win7 x64 still supports more than enough for a nice boost in video memory. MS can shove their announcement up their ass.

The point is that nobody is shafted by using Win7. If you want or have Win8 or 8.1 then great for you, and yes it does have some nice under-the-hood improvements but for gamers it still means very little. A framerate difference of only 1-2% improvement at best on high-end hardware is not something I am going to upgrade for.

I'm not faulting the OP for mentioning a legitimate article, but I am faulting MS for making such a bullshit press release. They got burned on the XBone and they know it. It's time for some damage control and FUD, baby!

TLDNR: You can safely ignore the MS announcement.

edit: I added some citations for clarity. Also, here are some benchmarks that Google turned up. Actually I just realized that these show Win8 as being a little slower (which was not my intention) but you can Google your own results. I'm sure that some of the lost performance here is due to drivers not being fully optimized for Win8.

1 decade ago
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developer's view - situation la Windows Vista DX10 era

68% with Windows 7 , DirectX 11.0+some might installed feature update to partial 11.1
14% with Windows 8 , DirectX 11.1
0.01% with Windows 8.1 , DirectX 11.2
08% with Windows Vista , DirectX 11.0
10% with XPs , obsolete DirectX 9

let's be optimistic and say all 18% Vista/XP users go and buy this year new PC with Windows 8.1
and even more optimistic, let say all 100% Windows 8 owners update to 8.1

then You still on 32% Windows 8.1 , DirectX 11.2 ...

any reason to hurry ? not at all ...

1 decade ago
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I think Crysis 3 is the first and only game to require DX11.

1 decade ago
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no

1 decade ago
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There are more games that require DX11?
I personally know only about Crysis 3.

1 decade ago
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I remember AvP 2010 also has DX11.

1 decade ago
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Yeah but it's not required. It falls back to DX9 if I recall correctly. My gf only has an HD5770 and the tesselation and other DX11 features kill the framerate, but you can turn off DX11 completely in the settings menu. The game came out in 2010, around the same time as Win7, so it would have hurt the game's sales if it only supported DX11 at the time.

Which reminds me, I should drop my old HD6870 into her pc one of these days.

1 decade ago
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Wait a minute, so you bought an Ultimate license and 32GB of DDR3, but nothing better than a 7870?

What do you use your computer for?

1 decade ago
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I do mostly gaming on that particular PC but since I only play at 1920x1200 with 8x AA I can hit 60fps in every single game except Far Cry 3 (and I can still get over 50fps) so anything more than my HD7870 is kinda pointless right now. When I eventually replace my monitors with something bigger then obviously I will upgrade graphics subsystem too.

Of course there are also some games I don't have yet, like Crysis 3. I upgrade about once a year but I don't see much point in replacing my card again until the HD8870 is out.

1 decade ago
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Still, why suck a ludicrously high amount of RAM? Do you run virtual machines / do any kind of virtualization? Do you do high fidelity lossless audio encoding? Or video rendering?

1 decade ago
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When I was putting the PC together 6 months ago the RAM happened to cost just a little bit more than 16GB, so why not. I already had the Ultimate licence so I migrated it over from my previous gaming PC. I haven't used VMware lately but yeah I did for a while. Besides, any memory that isn't used will automatically go towards the Windows disk cache. Honestly though I don't see 32GB as being all that much, but I work with servers so I'm probably locked into that mindset. If this board would have accepted 64GB then I probably would have installed it, as pointless as it might have been for a gaming PC.

1 decade ago
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lol, in that case I dig you. If the price diff. was indeed tiny, sure, why not. Especially considering the type of guy you then are xD

Reminds me of talks on the work floor with the guys over at the linux departement when I was working with Junipers, managing virtual ports and setting ARP tables for the top 2000 business cust. of KPN here in NL, the "I work with servers so I'm probably locked into that mindset" bit :P

Considering your nickname btw, here's some music you might like that I was just listening to:

1

2

3

4

1 decade ago
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Edited with some

MOOZIK

1 decade ago
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Why the hijack? You could have post a new comment like everyone else. :p

1 decade ago
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I was trying to rescue this thread before it went completely fucking sideways, but I failed miserably as usual.

1 decade ago
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Ok.

1 decade ago
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Well, they need a selling feature for their new crap. Although I have Win8 and it is not so bad as people say... it is just Win7 with a useless Metro fad.

1 decade ago
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I wouldn't have a problem if the whole UI wasn't forced to work as if i had a touchscreen, or i'd need to look deep into the OS to find features which in the last OS were 4 clicks away.

1 decade ago
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Yeah Win 8 really isn't as bad as people make it out to be. Although if you have Win7 it's probably not worth getting Win8. This is probably a way of them trying to make Win8 more appealing to people.

1 decade ago
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The problem with Win8 is that the layout it's more suitable for tablets than PCs

1 decade ago
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luckily my graphics card has 3gb vram i wont really need the extra vram for a while, directx11.2 wont really help me, so I am fine with windows 7

1 decade ago
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I'll go to Win8 too eventually. Win 8.1 is coming out later this year and it'll fix some things.
This isn't really a problem.
When Vista came out it was bad. And they pulled the same shit. DX10 ran only on Vista. But they patched it and by SP2 it was a pretty good OS.

1 decade ago
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Windows 8 gave me a handful FPS boost on all my games.

I feel like I'm free from such the slow and clunky mess Windows 7 was.

And Metro isn't as bad as everyone says. No one likes it because everyone is afraid of change. It's just like Facebook Timeline. When it was optional, no one used it because everyone thought it was crap. When everyone was forced to, it gradually became familiar and easy to use. The old design became ugly.

IMO the people that hate Metro with the only reason being "it's different, different things are bad" are the same people that hate Diablo 3 because it isn't a Diablo 2 remake. Fear of change is one of the worst fears.

1 decade ago
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So are you saying that Windows 8 is less stable & "trustable" than Windows 7? I don't know about anyone else, but Windows 8 seems pretty damn stable & "trustable" to me. I has yet to fail me.

1 decade ago
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Same here, win 8 for half a year now, works like a charm, and I've noticed about 20% performance boost in games. Don't judge win8 without trying it. P.s. I recommend Classic Shell to get rid of the annoying dashboard and to have start menu.

What I do wonder, on the other hand, is if we will need to get new gpu with dx 11.2 or will our gpus that support dx11 be able to just use this new one also...

1 decade ago
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"P.S.: please use an extra program right after installing your new expensive OS to make it usable"
P.P.S.: that's not how good software works.

1 decade ago
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It's just to get rid of Metro if you want, it's optional.

1 decade ago
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Sure, but metro reduces productivity and usability on a PC even below Win7 so it's a downturn for 8.

1 decade ago
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You're right there, that was my judgement talking. Main thing about 8 is that fundamentally, i see (and saw) no need for an upgrade in the first place; that, plus the change in the UI, which to me seems to be aimed more towards mobile devices, is something that's not quite appaling.

1 decade ago
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It has a lot of under hood upgrades. Anyone who will use it for a month won't be coming back to 7, UI or not.

1 decade ago
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My friend has been stuck with it since April and still bemoans his misfortune.

1 decade ago
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It's that same idiocy as 4chan cretins claiming XP was better than Vista and 7.

1 decade ago
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Actually, XP was better than Vista, according to practically everything I read about it and my own personal experience. It was slower and less efficient because it was bogged down with a lot of crap. I still prefer XP over 7 myself, but that's just personal opinion, since my experiences with 7 have been less than pleasant.

1 decade ago
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I don't understand people like you claming xp was better than Vista. It is utter BS: When XP came out it was slower, required more resources than 98(se) AND had no proper drivers or compatability with certain hardware. It was the exact same thing as Vista, but at least Vista introduced 64 bit in a useful version. XP crashed a lot more than Vista ever did, and XP did not become good until SP2 was released (which introduced exclusively dx 9c). SP2 was released in 2004, 3!! years after the original OS.
When people say that XP was better than Vista, they simply have no clue what they are talking about.

1 decade ago
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I don't understand people like you claming Vista was better than Xp. It is utter BS: when Vista came out, it was slower, required more resources than XP AND had no proper drivers or compatability with certain hardware. It was the exact same thing as XP, but at least XP didn't bog shit down with useless crap. Vista crashed a lot more than XP ever did, and Vista did not become good until Windows 7 came out to replace it so quickly because even Microsoft realised it was shit. When people say that Vista was better than XP, they simply have no clue what they are talking about.

See how easy an opinion is to have?

1 decade ago
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Only I've used both OS'es when they where launched, so at least I have experience with it.

1 decade ago
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And I had experience with both when they died, and XP was still vastly superior. In my opinion. I don't understand why you whiny bastards keep pushing shit at people just because they dislike your favourite OS. Yes, I bloody get it. You prefer Vista. I prefer XP. Did any more really fucking need to be said?

1 decade ago
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Yes and no... I find the Windows 8 dashboard thingy to be absolutely horrible, reason for which I used Classic Shell to completely disable it, add the start menu, and practically have the windows 7 look, which I prefer. But under the hood... there's a bigger beast than 7 with better performance and more stability, in my own experience. After about 6 months of win8, I ain't goin' back to 7 ever again :)

1 decade ago
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Just finished repairing a laptop running Vista and actually Xp is/was better :P

1 decade ago
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evolution is not for everybody...

1 decade ago
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No, he's right; Vista was a travesty. I removed Vista and "downgraded" to XP on a few systems for myself and family.

Windows 7 is fine (using it right now) but I know many people who skipped Vista entirely.

1 decade ago
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But ... it has failed me o.o

I'm using a 64bit Win 8 Single Language, and the problem is compatibility. It seems it's having a hard time playing old time games, like Serious Sam Classic, when I can run it fine on my Win 7 64bit machine.

Is Win 8 meant to be advanced, without looking back?

1 decade ago
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Windows 8 has compatibility problems + my personal account which was tied in "users" was broken one time, so I could not use metro apps. (I fixed it with creating new user but it was bad.)

1 decade ago
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The usual.

1 decade ago
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Windows 8 works fine.

1 decade ago
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This is what ubisoft needs. Ubisoft's games has this annoying texture pop-ins because of the detail they are pushing in they're games.

Same with BL2. Well let's see if AAA games will embrace this DX 11.2, hopefully crackers can implement this DX11.2 on win7

1 decade ago
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Ubisoft's games are games? O:

Unbelievable.

1 decade ago
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Actually, Ubisoft games were games. Now they're PC products are to be free-to-play pay-to-enjoy franchises. Ubi said that's due to only 5 in 100 played copies of their games being legit. If they count in all the people that cracked their legally bought Assassin's Creeds to get rid of annoying drm the math sounds right.

1 decade ago
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Or maybe just install Windows 8 cause that "crack" thing will never happen?

1 decade ago
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+999!

1 decade ago
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or just wait for games to actually embrace 11.2 before upgrading. Don't want unnecessary formatting just to upgrade to win8

1 decade ago
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They tried the same shit with DX10 and Windows Vista xD
Well, Windows 7 and the X360 done the impossible and gave me a very high opinion of the comapny and their products, but right now its just "good" old Microsoft all over again.

1 decade ago
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It's not like your RAM is as fast as the onboard video RAM. So I highly doubt it will be that great anyway, but hey, I'm on Win8 and lovin' it ;) So I don't mind either way.

1 decade ago
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Yes that's something i'm wondering myself as well, maybe they're caching the RAM, rendering, and instantly swapping it? or pre-allocating it in order to avoid those bottlenecks? I'll find that out sooner or later.

1 decade ago
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Game developers would be stupid to use that feature on PC. PCIe x16 has much lower bandwidth than the graphics cards' memory has, so the feature would just make games run slower on PC.

It's clearly added with Xbox One in mind and not PC.

1 decade ago
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The problem is that the pc architecture is obsolete as it is. PS4 has shown the way of the future, and Pc's are lagging surprisingly far behind, architecture wise. As it is today, ALL data put into a gfx's ddr5 memory has to first come from the systems DDR3 ram. So you kinda already have that problem. What 11.2 does, is future proofing, IF pc's get similar architecture to the PS4. If Pc's don't it still future proofs Pc's today with GFX's that only has 2gb ram or less, since NeXT gen consoles will utilize much more RAM on the Graphics side.

1 decade ago
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Microsoft: "Mmm, DirectX 10 exclusive for Windows 7 didn't went very well. Let's make DirectX 11.2 exclusive for Windows 8, that will do it!"

Microsoft is just so *** stupid. They fucked op Windows, they fucked up Windows Server. Now they will fuck this up again.

1 decade ago
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DirectX 9 is for Windows XP.
DirectX 10 is for Windows Vista.
DirectX 11 is for Windows 7.
DirectX 11.1 is for Windows 8.

1 decade ago
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DirectX 11.3 is for Windows 9 (But you have to buy it as DLC)

1 decade ago
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DirectX 9 is for Windows 98 and up
DirectX 11 is for Vista and up

1 decade ago
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Lol man you censored your first swearing but then wrote f*ck without censoring, what's the point haha

and what does *** even mean?

nothing serious man :D

1 decade ago
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Yet you guys have to agree, all the negative promo for Win8 is based on the awful metro shit UI.

After disabling it and deleting all apps, it's just a slightly faster version of Win7.

1 decade ago
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If your computer is wooden then yes it's just slightly faster, if you got gaming pc with high end video card and ssd then it's 200 light years faster than win7/vista

1 decade ago
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I didn't want to exaggerate and attract idiots that would yell at me for praising Win8's speed boost.

Seems it went better than expected.

1 decade ago
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Yeah, 8 is seriously good!

1 decade ago
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People hate Win8 because Matro AND because GabeN told them to. Obey your master, or no Summer Sale.

1 decade ago
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Yeah, but I don't want to give them money so that they can point at it and say "look, people like it, let's continue with this metro shit"

1 decade ago
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When their crap doesn't sell, Microsoft prefers to get exclusive stuff rather than improving their crap. That's why I hate them and I will never pay for another of their OS's ever again.

1 decade ago
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Dont let the door hit you on the back while you bend for Apple or Linux :3

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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hehehe

1 decade ago
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Let's go back to the gool ol' FCKGW-RHQQ2 ways.

1 decade ago
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I'll still use their products... I just won't pay... Hehehe

1 decade ago
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I hope you enjoy giving Microsoft a justification to fuck over legitimate customers with DRM.

1 decade ago
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I'm... not sure I follow your argument.
DirectX 11.1 is already Windows 8 exclusive (Well, Windows Server 12 too... but that doesn't count) and has been since it's release alongside Windows 8.

So of course 11.2 will also be for Windows 8 only. Get with the program, you're a year behind your news!

1 decade ago
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A part of DX11.1 functionality was added to Windows 7. So far it seems that this won't happen with 11.2, but there's still a chance that it will.

Still, I imagine that tiled resources won't be made available for Windows 7.

1 decade ago
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Yeah directx updates being limited to newer windows is not a new concept, people just love complaining about windows 8.

1 decade ago
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Huge amount of tears over here.
Just get linux and quit whining.

1 decade ago
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Because all games are released for Linux as well.

1 decade ago
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He cries about Windows so fk windows and get a linux problem solved.
Now you have linux and you can browse 9gag and and.. Wait i already mentioned everything linux can...

1 decade ago
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Windows fanboy or just Linux too complicated for ya?

1 decade ago
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Just scrap your PC and quit whining.
Fix'd :3

1 decade ago
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Wow you really are one massive fan boy aren't you.

1 decade ago
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So, how many DX 11.1 games have you seen so far?

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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People like you are so cute. Keep on bashing Windows 8 without having even tried it for a reasonable time. Bashing the new start menu, but too stupid to see that it's so much easier to use than the old one. All you have to do is type the first few letters of the tool you want to use and bam it starts. No gazillion mouse movements anymore. And overall it's an improved Windows 7. But what else to expect from casuals who just keep copying what some forum guys said back then.

Either way, it happened before. It's nothing new that for newest features you'll need the newest OS.

grabs popcorn

1 decade ago
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I'm using Windows 8 since like 2012 september, and it's awesome...way better then Windows 7 in my opinion.

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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"AFAIK from what I remember"
Yeah refresh your memory buddy xD

1 decade ago
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1 decade ago
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Um, no. I'm still using Windows 7, and all I ever have to do to launch any software or open a file is to press Win (or open start menu), type a few letters of what I want to open (like "note" for notepad) and press enter.
Magic - what I wanted to open is now open!!!
This is a pretty standard feature in modern desktop operating system UIs, really.
Ubuntu does it with their Unity interface, GNOME does it in its interface. There's nothing revolutionary or groundbreaking going on with this 'type a few letters and press enter to launch' feature.

1 decade ago
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Typing in the few characters in the start menu was a feature even in Vista :/

1 decade ago
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op use outdated os, rofl. have fun

1 decade ago
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Windows 7 outdated, lol you so funny troll.
You kinda confused "outdated" and "desktop"
You can use that mobile crap your self. No one cares

1 decade ago
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It will just a pain to the ass for game developers only, because they will need to support both DX11 + DX11.X in order for their game to support larger audience (just like they still supporting DX9 for Windows XP). Or just completely ignore DX11.X.

It will takes a long time before game developers stop supporting DX11 for Windows 7. By the time games not longer support Windows 7, I bet you already switched to Windows 8.

1 decade ago
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Nothing can make me get Windows 8. Windows 7 works perfectly fine for me I don't need there touchscreen shit.

1 decade ago
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And this is why I was going to get Windows 8. Because get over it. "Yay! I just got shafted by MS for sticking to a stable and trustable OS that is Win XP" was the thought of people about Vista and their exclusive DX. People got over it. So you can get over this one.

Also, I lol'd at this: "charged 100$USD more than their competition" Because that totally had an impact on people sucking on Sony's hardware last generation.

1 decade ago
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Yeah, everyone seems to forget that the PS3 was 100.00 USD more than the 360 at launch.

And to be technical...since Microsoft announced their price first...Sony is the one charging less than the competition. :-P

1 decade ago
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Also a year late too, if I recall, so the 360 had even dropped in price a little by the time it came out.

1 decade ago
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It will probably play the same as with XP: initially it won't matter and people will stick to the old OS. A later Windows version will be good enough for the majority to switch and then games will start using the new features more extensively and those on the old OS will need to switch to something newer or be left behind.

1 decade ago
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Exactly. As beautiful as XP was and as much as I miss it already in just three months without it, times have changed and people should move on.

1 decade ago
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That's what makes me feel a bit better, it will hopefully take a while before they really start using said features. Up until then, i'll stick with Win7 for as long as i can.

1 decade ago
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I feel exactly as you OP.

1 decade ago
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Yay! I just got shafted by M$ for sticking to a stable and trustable OS that is Win7.

Wut mate. Win 8 >>> Win 7. BTW, they did same with previous DXes, everyone with half of brain saw it coming.

1 decade ago
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Oh the irony...

1 decade ago
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I will stay in Windows 7 for a few years. Waiting Windows 9.

1 decade ago
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lol f u Microshit!!!!

1 decade ago
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lolollolo !!!!1111 m$$$$$

1 decade ago
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roflcakelololoolOL$ mm4 M$M$M$M$

WAN TAKE OUR CA$H msdhfjhfjsfhfsjshdj

imtooafraidtoformatmyhddsoistayedatwindows7

1 decade ago
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Closed 1 decade ago by Onomatopesha.