Expensive. Expensive. Expensive. Did I mention that it was extremely expensive? Also, that 4070 rebranded at the last second as a 4080 is an insult
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Nvidia has been extremely overpriced since the 20 series launch. There was just a thread about this, but I'm having trouble finding it.
Edit: Here is the thread from 3 days ago where there are some comments. I will just copy my comment here:
Nvidia went crazy with pricing starting with the 20 series and I will not pay anywhere near these prices. I could see the prices being reasonable at half of what they currently are, but I still wouldn't buy one because I can't justify spending $450-800 on a GPU. If they drastically dropped the pricing, I might consider a 4060 or 4070, but until then l'll stick with the used market like I always have. The last card I bought was a GTX 980 Strix which was brand new, unopened, but a little over 3 years after it was released, so I only paid $145. I could have got a used 980 for around $100, but the extra money was worth it knowing it was new and didn't possibly have 3 years of hard use.
My GPU before that was a used GTX 580 for $110, and before that was a used Radeon HD 4850 for $37. I can't see myself paying $400-600 for a GPU to play games, so over $1000 sounds ludicrous. It makes me sad to see how much money people are willing to spend mostly just to say they have the latest and greatest things. I don't play many new AAA games so probably 90% of the stuff I play won't even push my 8 year old GPU that hard.
Edit 2: The 4080 12GB is not just the 4080 with less RAM, it also has less CUDA cores. The 4080 12 GB is pretty much the 4070, but I think they don't want you to compare the 4070 pricing with previous gen 70 class cards, especially the 3070 which they are continuing to sell.
4090 24GB - 16,384 cores
4080 16GB - 9728 cores
4080 12GB - 7680 cores
Edit 3: Here's the launch pricing back to the GTX 900 series. The 30 series looks cheaper, but that's not realistic because almost nobody was able to get the GPUs anywhere near those prices.
(970 - $330) (1070 - $450) (2070 - $600) (3070 - $500) (4080 12g - $900)
(980 - $550) (1080 - $700) (2080 - $800) (3080 - $700) (4080 16g - $1200)
The 970 was $330 and the 980 was $550. I play games every single day and I don't think it is worth spending $500 on a GPU. How can people justify spending $1000 or more just on a GPU? You used to be able to build an entire mid to high end gaming computer for around $1000.
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In the 90's my dad spend a whole months salary on a pc, and another on just a printer, and it was all found very normal back then..
Nor you won't hear people complain about buying a iphone for over 1000 euro..Yet when it comes to pc stuff.. Bit double.
$400-600 one is being really cheap..Noone is forcing anyone to buy an expensive card, if you can afford it, want it, can use it, then buy it. If you don't, just don't, chances are you probably won't have much use for it anyway then.
To each their own. Miners combined with Nvidia's greed might have a part in it, but the technology also advances in it,.combined with a chip shortage and other materials.
What they did rebranding the 4070? Yeah that's low.
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The prices have been increasing drastically and Nvidia is reporting record profits. I think the reason is corporate greed and dumb consumers. It seems like the majority of consumers no longer understand the value of money and have no self control. They just need to have the latest and greatest things to impress the people around them and don't care if they can't afford it.
We should not be spending $1000 on phones either. Apple started doing it and when other companies saw how many people are out there willing to throw their money around, they all started to increase their prices as well. The iphone 4S, 5, 6, and 7 all started at $650 and those were not cheap phones. Then they increased the price and people did complained. People started to realize that they don't need to buy a new phone every year or 2 and they actually stopped upgrading their phones because it was getting too expensive. I thought that might also happen with the Nvidia 20 series because everyone was complaining about how expensive they were, but it seems like everyone bought them anyway.
Now crypto mining on GPUs is basically dead and we are in a recession, people are having trouble paying for food, rent, heat. You would think Nvidia would drop prices to sell GPUs since they don't need to be charging that much to begin with, but no, they will just increase prices to keep profits high on less sales. The rich and dumb consumers will continue to buy even though the pricing is ludicrous and the rest will have to stick to previous gen or used.
I realize this is partially caused by the lack of materials and lack of competition from AMD and Intel, but I still don't like the outrageous prices and I don't think I am wrong to complain about it. I think the biggest problem is the consumers that are willing to pay the high prices. Now that crypto mining on GPUs is dead, the consumers are the number one reason the prices are staying high.
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TBH it more of pampered kids who buy these monsters because their parents can afford to buy it without batting an eyelid. I saw it myself. I was bargaining here in this shop trying to tell myself 1650 GTX was worth my budget than my last 750Ti GTX that conked out after 7 years. So i was trying to make some more budget over buying 1050Ti GTX. And in came this kid buying a monster 3070 RTX card [I think]. He just pointed at it, his Mom flashed out her credit card, no questions asked, no eyebrows raised on asking the rate, that was it. Us working guys with a family to feed just cant do it. LOL. I have literally bought 2 second hand laptops for cheap last 5 years just to save costs especially in lockdown. I postpobed PC upgrade in lockdown may do it now.
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I'm gonna agree with you here, there was a "golden age" where hardware, not just GPUs, was affordable and almost anyone could jump into PC workspace and have a decent computer for $500-1000 and actually start creating something, gaming, surfing the web, having a multimedia center all in one... Families moved to owning several computers (be it a desktop or laptops, tablets...)
Nowadays I feel like it's back to 1990s where a computer was something an entire family had to share if they could even afford it. It's not as bad, ofc, as you can still get a "usable" laptop for $300-500 for internet/multimedia/drawing/light photography blah blah but still, the trend is a bit concerning.
I've had gtx950 2gb for like 7 years, as I was in a tough spot at the time, and was saving a tiny bit for years until I managed to get rtx3060ti on the day of release. It was severely overpriced, but still a smart decision at the moment compared to 2080 that was priced similarly. And it served me well ever since, almost 2 years now, it's an amazing card. But I'm not even looking at rtx40x0 except for curiosity (mostly price-wise, after the eth moving away from gpu mining and covid international-trade-disruption slowly going away), don't feel the need nor do I have money to splurge on a next gen gpu so soon again.
I know some people game in 1440p or 4K or whatever, they might need constant upgrades, people who like high fps rates... but when I switched from Atari2600/NES/Genesis to PC in 1999, we played games in 640x480 or 800x600 or 1024x768 using CRT monitors and if you were lucky, a 3Dfx Voodoo Banshee (as "real" higher end vodoos were impossible to buy) so I don't really mind balancing the resolution, fps and quality even now, and my sweet spot (for my eyes, and the wallet) is still 1080p very high 60fps, and for that I'm cool for another few years... Maybe even 5+ with the DLSS on.
Sure, 75, 90, 120fps or 2k/4k looks nicer... but requires more cpu and gpu power. Which translates into more money. Which requires other components to be able to support whatever you're installing, which is even more money and so on. And I don't see a new console gen switch, which is what usually pushed forward the graphics in games, any time soon.
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At least you can still buy a Xbox or Playstation (well, one of them just raised prices too) and it actually has better hardware than gaming PCs of the time of release at a lower price. That never happened before.
I think that comparison is another thing that makes $1000 graphics cards look bad.
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And it used to be, console games are more expensive, there's no discounts like with Steam... but now consoles have online stores and discounts too. I don't use any consoles atm so I don't know the details, maybe it's still not comparable, but the advantage PC had is certainly melting.
That said, I'd still opt for PC because, it's a computer; you can do a ton of other things using it, not just "consume".
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It's not uncommon for popular digital console games to go on sale, sometimes very well at 60-75% off, but I would say that even with the Steam-Sale glory days far behind us, game prices on PC are still ridiculously better than on console. Obviously bundles are a huge advantage as well.
I even want to say that discounts on console have actually gotten worse over the last 2 generations, at least according to what I've personally seen (own every PS console, play most games on console). The Playstation store had flash sales all the time during gen7. I vividly remember getting the Mass Effect Trilogy for $3! Haven't seen deals like that in a very long time though.
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Interesting. So it's not all sunshine even on console market.
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The chip shortage really seemed to have ps5 hard, it's really rare to get your hands on one.
Somehow Microsoft don't seem to have it with their xbox.
Why the potential market for gamers to buy ps5 games isn't so big, and will hurt devs. But even their growing prices of 80 euro might also shy away people from buying them, i think it's been a noose around this console which eventually will thighten and be killed.
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Define people able to buy a playstation 5? The amount of stock stores get are like a handful every few months and then people dive enmass trying to get one, there are likes (tens of) thousands wanting one, but when they get like 10-100 units each time.
And that's been going on for well over a year, if so few units are being sold, it must hurt the devs that made the games for it too because the market of potential game buyers is also lower.
Yes, you can get them new (second hand) for a larger price from those lucky people that did get one.
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I really admire your spirit, not fall into consumerism trap and actually only buy stuff you really need. Sadly, our whole economy is fuelled by this and won’t change in foreseeable future.
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Way too expensive, and complete overkill if you just buy it for gaming.
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Meh, I am happy with what I got, plus my PSU isn't strong enough for it atm.
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Just made a thread for this the other day: https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/kJ3rY/nvidia-geforce-4000-series-of-gpus-announced
Anyhow, I was fully expecting the 4090 to be around the $1500-2000 price range. Been trying to build a 'dream PC' for the first time in my life over about a year now, and other then the GPU finished putting it together a few months ago (would have waited for Ryzen 7000 but don't like the idea of network-enabled hardware security in Pluton), so while the price is very painful I was prepared for it. But for those looking to buy the next step down, the 4080, I really didn't expect it to break $1k (or the 4070 to be renamed to 4080 12GB...). Can definitely understand why so many people are upset.
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Is Pluton confirmed to be in Ryzen 7000? I have never heard of it before, but I just looked it up and it sounds like it was only on mobile CPUs. I read that you can disable it in the BIOS, but it doesn't get completely disabled and I wonder if they could somehow force it to enable in the future. I am planning on upgrading after I see the performance of the new AMD, Intel, and then the 3D v-cache models. I was leaning towards the cheapest 3D v-cache model, but I don't like the sounds of this. Hopefully it won't be included in the retail desktop CPUs.
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It hasn't been confirmed yet, but considering the bad press Pluton has gotten quite a few people seem to be under the impression that AMD is trying to avoid talking about / confirming it for fear of hurting Ryzen 7000 sales. The Linux community in particular is concerned about the security implications. Qualcomm is also planning on embedding Pluton directly into their networking chips.
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Will the consumer vote with their wallet and show Nvidia that this pricing is way too high? Nah lol. Budget current gen PC builds are gonna be a thing of a past, especially for us outside the "first world".
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The good part about these prices is that more people will consider buying a Steam Deck instead. ;)
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I agree. I got mine and I suddenly no longer wish to buy one due to shortages and scalpers the last two years.
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The 4090 is a beast of a card I'd like to have. But it is way too expensive and I refuse to pay so much for just a GPU.
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overpriced and the "4080 12gb" uses a xx70 die (AD104) ... i mean there was the gtx 680 that had a 104 die and performed alright.to be clear, nvidia dont need gamers, they make way more in the data center business and also called their presentaiton an ai developer conference.
i am more interested in amds cards but amd would oriantate at nvidias pricing so dont expect cheap cards ... maybe from intel when they finally release anything thats bigger than the arc a380 because their drivers are broken right now
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Way too expensive, way too power demanding. Great chance for AMD to stick another one up Nvidia, and intel to stop fucking up and bring cheap ARC to the low-mid market.
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From what I could gather Intel's ARC cards need some serious driver support. As it stands they might be o.k. for a home theater PC.
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what do you think about the new NVIDIA graphic card?
Lol.
They made cards hoping crypto craze will still be strong, knowing miners will pay whatever NVidia asks. Then had to limit how many GPUs will be available on the market to prevent huge drop in price, which would make new pricing looks even worse. They also undercut their partners pricing knowing people will just buy cheaper founder edition, and Asus, MSI, EVGA etc. will be left with piles of 30xx cards no one wants to buy and with big loses. No wonder EVGA left the NVidia ship.
Cards have ridiculous power draw (remember when NVidia was laughing from AMD power-hungry cards?). But it's fine now, as it's NVidia and they managed to bump performance along power draw. So performance per W is still alright. Too bad they could not keep last gen power draw and upgrade hardware to make it faster, like they did before.
Cards would require 4x8 power connectors (or more), which would take like half of the GPU length to put on PCB. So they came up with new PSU connector as a part of ATX3 standard. Too bad it's kind of hard to squish 2x8 pin connector into size that is occupied by 1x8 connector, so they have short longevity (like up to 30 plug in-out tries) and cables can't be bend "too much". Otherwise pins in this extremely tiny connector bend which can lead to melting cables and fire. They should solve this kind of problems before releasing cards, especially that they had in-house tests. It would be better to use 8 pin connectors even when card would look ugly, than risk someone catching fire due to badly designed connector.
They saw without miners they can't sell 4070 for $900 so they re-branded it as 4080. Nice way to mislead customers. Jonny in shop seeing two boxes with 4080, one "12gb" and other "16gb" can reasonably assume it's exactly the same card but with less memory. Jonny will think they don't play in 4K so 12gb should be all right for their gaming, money saved! Only problem they bought worse card and Jonny's $300 savings did not come from fact that for NVidia extra 4GB of GDDR6X cost 300 bucks.
Wonder if they quietly hope mining will go back to how it used to be, so their $900 4070 will be sold for $1800 or $2500 by scalpers.
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Heh... I wouldn't be surprised if crypto-mining was the reason the electric prices increased 3x in a little over a year (but they claimed winter heating usage as a reason when we barely had one).
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40xx are the size of a car, cost a bloody fortune (add a few hundreds if you want a 3rd party card), can draw up to 600W and the 4080/4070 shady shit Nvidia pulled. And don't forget that if you are on atx 2.0 (even if top tier) you can potentially have a whole lot of problems with 4090 (and maybe also the 4080 16?) so you better toss in also a new atx 3.0 psu.
Intel 12900 and 12700 can apparently heat a small house.
I was reading somewhere that new Amd cpu is gonna support only ddr5.
Nvme drives potentially bottlenecking the gpu depending on which pcie lanes are shared on the mobo (I know it's not a new problem, but still...)
So to me pc building in general is just a bit of a mess right now.
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This is what you need to know about 40xx Nvidia series - I've bought an used 1070 back in 2019 and I completelly fine with it
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I am using a 1070ti right now and was planning to upgrade during 4000s, but now I think I can wait a bit longer.
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Same her. I have a 1080, but will probably just get a 3090 instead.
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My 1070 isn't nice at all anymore for AAA games from the last two or so years.
Cyberpunk was "nope", Ubisoft games are "eh, okay.
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Huh?
I was playing Cyberpunk with all video settings on max (except RTX ofc). Maybe sometimes my FPS dropped below 30 but I don't remember problems with it. And all this with my I5 6600.
Probably your videochip is roasted
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Three words: Crypto mining. "Inflation".
I think AMD's GPUs has a new customer. 😑
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I already bought 30s card, so we meet with nvidia again on 60s series.
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I find it all crazy. I have a 1080ti in one PC, and a 2060 super in the other, and they both power my 1440p monitors just fine at 60-90hz depending on the content. I'd love some extra butter on the graphics but I'm going to stick with them until the prices come way down. Excessive power draw and upgrades just to run high end 30s or these new 40s. Spent enough investing in having something decent, not looking to dump loads more for some extra fps and some raytracing, or whatever might be new this time around.
I'd consider switching to AMD but I've always found their cards and/or drivers randomly buggy, so I'm not terribly interested in having that headache again.
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I have an old R9 280X from 2014 and play retrogames. Easy
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Still using a GTX1060, i'm a bit worried about new cards power consumption.
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Usually that goes combined with needing a higher CPU too and those 2 combined, and in some countries electricity prices goes to the roof, so your worries are totally understandable.
Offcourse you can always set settings a bit lower, depends if you play games on ultra all day.
I got a 2080TI with a 27 inch monitor (i know) and still mostly play indie games. :p
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Yeah sometimes i feel the same playing indie games, it's fun yes but what a waste of resources ! XD
If it breaks down i hope there will be some GTX left because of power consumption yes, and because as you noticed it would be more than enough sometimes for what we do with it.
I had to replace PC screen recently, the smallest i found irl was 24 inch. Unfortunately they didn't have smaller.
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Like having and using a volvo with a porsche engine. :p
If i had the money i would even get a whole extra pc that would still run on windows 7 (thought windows 10 isn't so bad either) to remain compability of older games, not even sure how that is with windows 11.
Yeah i think on steamgifts it even says a (big) majority of my played steam games are indie/platform and adventure games. xD.
Why not get a spare GTX1060, they shouldn't be so expensive i think?
And why would you want even smaller? I got glasses (i once opted for computer glasses but optrician found that unnecessary) and already squinting my eyes at certain texts. I looked at monitors, but the really big ones are also not good for the eyes (since our field of view is also limited) but they also got fans, and usually they use cheap ones that are noisy.
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If i had the money i would even get a whole extra pc that would still run on windows 7 (thought windows 10 isn't so bad either) to remain compability of older games, not even sure how that is with windows 11.
W7 games run well on compatibility mode on W10... But i don't know if future PC will still get W10.
Yeah i think on steamgifts it even says a (big) majority of my played steam games are indie/platform and adventure games. xD.
Sometimes indie are less involving, and there are some great ones ! :DWhy not get a spare GTX1060, they shouldn't be so expensive i think?
There are no more new 1060 just second hand, but currently there are still new 1660.
I'm still considering a 1660, they probably don't use much more power than a 1060.
What's holding me back is just that my pc is 6 years old,
and if it breaks better buy a full new equivalent PC but with 16go ram and a 1660 ! ^^
And why would you want even smaller? I got glasses (i once opted for computer glasses but optrician found that unnecessary) and already squinting my eyes at certain texts. I looked at monitors, but the really big ones are also not good for the eyes (since our field of view is also limited) but they also got fans, and usually they use cheap ones that are noisy.
Because a less powerful PC is enough for a lower resolution. If you've a smaller screen, sometimes the image looks more precise too. 24 inch it's already really huge.
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For indie and retro games that don't need much power I just use my laptop due to this reason. No need to power up the big PC
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I don't have a laptop but it's really a good idea.
If the price of electricity continues to rise, i will consider to buy one for smaller games ! :D
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in some countries electricity prices goes to the roof
I've been doubling down on my time at the PC at home each month. But the bill still stays the same. And the next month the price for electricity is going to be three times higher.. Going to be fun
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And gas? We got the fun of it going even up by 600-800 just a month.. Our government invented a roof ceiling or whatever, but in essence it meant the electricity companies smelled opportunity to raise the prices further to make some more profit. :x
My pc is up for an average of 16 hours a day.
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Oh yeah.. the gas... an absolute shitshow.
I am sort of lucky as I have equalized payment. I pay throughout the year 60 eur a month. But I wont be a dick to my landlord and will limit the use of gas furnace (I have an individual one for my flat and thermostat) so he doesn't have a heart attack.
But some who I have spoken to expect to have their utility payments to go from 150 to about 300-400 eur a month. More then rent basically. There will be some support from government but yeah - going to be crazy winter. My gf is renting out flats herself and those usually have gas or electricity heating... they are expecting to go up the same amount as well, but at least they will try to help out their tenants. Hopefully other landlords will do the same.
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Think with the governments are, they putting a big tax on gas/electricity (they use to own and control it themselves which was so much better..). And then they give a little back (not enough to cover the increase by far) but which basically we paid ourselves by those taxes. Something about a cigar out of your own box..
With my new place i gonna get a so called heatpump (so basically going gasless), in the winter it supposedly is even very warm without putting the heating on (though it can be very hot in the middle of summer).
You seem to have much nicer and helpfuller landlords, here they expect many to get kicked out and go homeless.
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Yup, can't argue with that. I mean without getting off topic much - here the biggest electricity provider and gas provider are both reporting record huge profits. And the government is at least acting they are trying to do something but in the end nothing happens and still the bills go up.
Yeah, my girlfriend has heatpump at her place and it can heat up the room rather decently. if it doesn't stay below -20 for a long period of time its enough. If not we have a little jotul stove as well, but that one is used rarely. But as for summer - it also works as conditioner. It does eat up electricity but still way better and more efficient then regular electrical heaters or gas stoves at this moment.
Who knows - I dont doubt many people risk of being kicked out or left without heating as well. A small city (might even call it a neighborhood) near capital city is going to have huge problem with heating this winter. The company that provides heating already said in the summer they are going to break the contract and close the company as they can't provide the heating... the government urged them not to do it and now they are saying that they can only provide the heating at a price it will cost about 1000 eur for a small flat........ rent is maybe 300-400 there...... average salary 1.3k ..... fun fun fun
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Yeah and also not wanting to go too offtopic but about those alternatives.
I hear people also seeking alternatives but offcourse wood gets more expensive (more demand, and sellers smelling profit).
Or petroleum, but also hear people are afraid of more people getting carbon monoxide poisonings, not sure how safe that really is?
And i also looked at those electrical heaters, but they go to 1000 watts (then again so is an average psu too, although if you play indie games it won't use it all much) :p but even 2000 watt, that also must get very expensive.
Rent here is 600-1000 (depending on the rooms) but with a low income you do get money from the government, but gas can go up to 1000 for 4 persons, while the average wage is 1800-2000, we are growing in a lot of ways, that people that don't work, are getting it easier then people that do work. Like now they want to do if you earn more then 45000 euro, you gonna pay 87%!! tax on anything above that, why would you want to do your best then still to work (hard)?
It just stings so many refugees (And really enmass and not something against those in need but there are giving pamphlets and know they gonna get everything handed for free here) that they get everything granted, and they keep their own people poor..
The world is gonna crazy, but what can one do? We should protest enmass, maybe civil wars gonna happen or we just all keep swallowing it. But best is to just live by carpe diem, taking it one day at a time, worrying does not change things either.
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There are still 90%+ games that don't even take full advantage of a 2080TI, 4000 is just overkill, cost useless power consumption.
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To not forget though, there are really no games to ever take full advantage of the 80 and especially the Ti counterparts power. They're unbalanced cards to begin with and they're not really meant to be good cards for actual gaming. More just to show off.
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But it ran stuff like ff15 fine on ultra?
And isn't it also good enough if you wanna go 4k gaming?
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I just mean they're generally inefficient. For example, what's the point in having a ton of VRAM when your card can't handle the graphics that would even require that much VRAM. Or why have a ton of CUDA cores when you're using an architecture that's already aged by the time that it's on the same level as the newer mid-range cards.
Just basically a bunch of money being asked to show off a Lambo while also using it on a highway at most, making it never reach its potential since it'll never have a chance to visit the exact type of road that would take its strengths, but also weaknesses equally into account.
At the end of the day we spend on what we find best. I know a lot of people who are extremely happy when they have that knowledge that they have the cutting edge tech, but also it's a shame when people get the disappointing feeling that they've maybe overspent on like a 1080Ti, which could've bought 2 generations worth of mid-range cards while already barely keeping up with a 2060.
I'm just hoping people are happy with whichever decision they make, even if it's something I personally wouldn't make.
Also I don't think 2080Ti is really meant for 4K gaming in the modern games. Maybe more of a 1440p powerhouse?
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Well now i feel slightly disappointed over the 2080TI, but i came from a GT 430, so anything was far better.
2080ti and 4k it seems people on reddit are mixed about some say yes but not 60fps, some say depends on your cpu (coffee lake 8700k).
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... cost useless power consumption.
Older PSU seem ill prepared for the 4000 series power draw. You might add a new 1000 Watts PSU to your wishlist ;)
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I'm perfectly happy with my RTX 2070, it should be valid for 1080p gaming for some more years. I mean, sure, I've got a bit of this "I want the newest top tier GPU right now!!!" urge, but who doesn't - and objectively I neither need a new GPU, nor can afford it.
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I think it is released at a high price to sell the stock of the 3000 series.
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I know a lot of your guys are either tech savvy or working in related field, what do you think about the new NVIDIA graphic card? 4000 series seems way too expensive compare to last generation, and I heard a lot people complain about the 408012.
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