Ultimately, Youtube is a privately controlled platform and will enact on its owners' wishes. I do believe they've already proved that IP =! person in several countries; so as long as you want to stay (pseudo)anonymous while commenting, you can without much hassle. I doubt they can prevent people from reregistering through VPNs and other masking tools. They can make it hard through obfuscation, the existence of Google+ and blocking notable VPN IPs, but they can't make it impossible.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, you're certainly not hard to please :p
I admire Google for finally taking up the task of cleaning Youtube into a place deserving of humanity, but there's several points that are of issue (and not least, the idea of online persona=real identity=SSNs/etc; that's been debated long enough). One is that there's no coexistence of a "wild garden" and "effective moderation" unless you succumb to a particular, specific culture that will shun perfectly fine people with majorly differing opinions. Second; there's discussion to be had, but if the users are not of sufficient quality to provide the content, then it's unlikely this will be blanket-effective in the long run. It's a whack-the-mole game.
What I'm particularly worried about is that Google refuses to give up G+. It's obviously a failure, given how their singular market increase/engagement rates come from Android apps (that require a G+ account to use). They've managed to wrap their entire corporate culture around this one service. If it's one day deprecated, it'll likely take several major Google services down with it; if it strikes gold one day, then I expect the open web to be as open as a clam that's had its pearl removed.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm trying to make a reference an example of what you are saying but it is going to come out seeming dumb anyway so here it is:
An example of the Google+ alienating their clientele and pushing them into different areas is when Mike Maulbeck spent a night attempting to upload a lets play to any porno site that would take his upload. Now though it maybe comical, it is an example of a shift that could occur. I mean Youtube is pretty much a household name but if it does start alienating their clientele then they could be the next Blockbuster video. They have already had issues with killing Youtuber's careers with the DCMA complaints with the Google + it is a new ballpark.
With the massive integration with Google and constant hassle that it is causing users there are things in YouTube that it's users cannot ignore. Furthermore, if it persists to be used as a tool against the people then there could be a shift into different forms of video streaming. I think of Tribe from back in the day and what Facebook is now.
Comment has been collapsed.
I'm sure Maulbeck would rather upload it to Twitch, if it doesn't give him pisspoor speeds.
But yes, this idea of people leaving Youtube has and already exists (check Vimeo, it's awesome and clean!). The problem with Youtube and FB right now is that the centre of gravity still belongs to them, and as long as the vast majority of users don't find a suitable replacement that can scale accordingly (there's not many companies that can secure enough datacenter capability for giant user files). Once that replacement exists and all the cool kids are already there, then you can move everyone else over. Reddit started in much the same way; a little site for geeks, then when it was a "thing" (a verifiable "thing" that plenty of niche users already used daily), it hit the road to mass popularity.
Live video streaming is absolutely full of potential. I'm not sure it'll reach mass gravity until everyone's using Glass or something similar though; the barrier in setting up streaming (hardware), having the home bandwidth capable of doing so (you need at least 1mbps up/down; most home uploads are at around 0.3-0.5mbps)…
What I think will happen first, is another rise in niche video websites that cater to specific audiences. Porn was the first (as always), Vimeo is threatening to take away all the "cool"/unique videos by promising HQ or above only, but won't replace the "home" videos nor the Vevo contracts; Crunchyroll pivoted into properly focusing on being the legal anime alternative in recent years… I can't think of much others.
Comment has been collapsed.
Good on them that they're trying to enforce their own rules and policies, but it won't work. Youtube comments will be shit no matter how tightly they're moderated, re-ordered and filtered. People come to Youtube to watch videos, not have conversations. Same with sorting comments by which are most popular, or which are arbitrarily decided to be more relevant. That doesn't create conversations, that just creates lots of responses to a single popular post because it happens to appear at the top.
Also, Cyber Bullying.
Whatever, though. It doesn't affect me anyway, since I don't read or write Youtube comments. I go to Youtube to watch videos, not to read what some 12 year old wants to say about those videos.
Comment has been collapsed.
Seems to me that you're watching the wrong videos then :P
The comment section can be/is used also for discussing - eg political debate, scientific theses, religious "facts" etc.. It's a good thing :)
The new system destroyed that pretty much.
So, again, if you need debate, you might as well supress spammers, bullies and such.
Not really sure how it's going to be moderated and all, but the change itself is great!
Comment has been collapsed.
Feel free to point me to the "right" videos then. I honestly have trouble believing they exist.
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't understand how consequences can be doled out to cyber bullies. Who's going to review cases? Google certainly isn't going to invest money in having comments moderated (even if they did it'd lead to huge disputes). Automated system? Well someone's gotta flag the comments then.... oh right.. the users... Oh wait those are the same shit faced users as the ones who post the comments. Go to a Justin Bieber video and say "I'm not a huge fan of what Justin did with his hairstyle in this video"... BAM 100 fan girls on your ass instantly flagging you. Go to Pewdiepie's video and say "Pewds, can you tone down the screaming a bit?" BAM 100 "bros" on your ass instantly.
How would this work? It wouldn't. Add the fact that Google/Youtube has no support system whatsoever and it doubly fails.
Edit: Just to clarify I'm saying this in response to the post by "Robert Jones" that you put in your OP. Because I honestly don't see anything about punishment on the blog...
Comment has been collapsed.
"Imagine if you were at risk for losing your entire +Google account (including +Gmail +Google+ and others) because you were being an abusive, harassing dickface? Awesome IMO. Losing access to Google's services could be a HUGE blow to someone's daily life,"
I'm more thinking about what is happening on US, British, and Canadian soil. It is outside of what has been said but YouTube, Facebook founders have stated if anything like Rehtaeh Parsons' case occurred on their site.
US There are poeple being charged and very young too
Canada. . . Though these guys do get what they deserve if what they did what they accused of
The UK is about to make it so that people can be charged.
Comment has been collapsed.
It's a nice idea and everything, but HOW are they going to moderate A THOUSAND COMMENTS A SECOND?
You simply cannot trust the community to moderate itself, because popular votes do not make for reliable measures of what is correct. (see example [1] at the end). There is nothing to stop sock-puppet accounts or even tag-along friends of the 'bullies' or trolls from deliberately power-voting on the leader's whim. There are simply too many videos and too many comments for a moderating force to keep up and make judgement calls on them either. On top of this, any moderator coming to resolve an issue will likely be coming into the middle of an issue, and could very easily interpret the issue wrong.
Hell, youtube can't even police it's VIDEOS in a reliable, morally strong manner. How often do you hear about videos being removed for "violating copyright" despite being 99% original material, well within fair-use policy and even having permission for the 1%? Or videos spam-reported just because they have an unpopular viewpoint, and being removed anyway? Until youtube can even address THAT, how can they ever possibly hope to take reliable, positive steps against 'cyberbullying', trolling and the like?
[1] A great example is video-gaming servers. Imagine a server populated with people who are computer literate and play computer games frequently. One day, a troll/griefer comes in. Somebody starts a votekick to get rid of them. You can bet that 90% of the server won't even bother to vote to remove them, even if they're happy to sit and complain about it. Later, somebody might initiate a votekick against a random enemy player because they don't like the weapon they're using. You can bet that there will be a higher vote-count even if the voters don't actually care about the subject being voted on. Online communities made of people 'just passing by' will never be a good place to allow moderation-by-consensus. Rational thought and actual call to action/report is always entirely dependant on people's whims, whereas nothing causes a solid response like petty offenses ("OMFG get out of the blue team!") or painting someone as a scapegoat through 'careful' trolling.
People are simply not consistently intelligent enough for such a system to work. Just look at the number of otherwise average comments hidden by random downvoting, yet the number of upvoted comments happily shooting off all kinds of hatespeech. Unreal.
Comment has been collapsed.
I wish I was cyber bullied as a kid/preteen instead of regular bullied to be totally honest, honestly its not to hard to look away from the screen, go to another site, etc...
Am I missing something? Not saying I am against the destruction of it, the less bullying the better, but really is this that grand a problem, maybe parents should just teach children to log the fuck off if someones harassing them, block the person, etc...
Like I have seen bullying issues come from facebook and the last time I checked you CAN block people, I feel like a am missing the problem here. Also anyone who actually takes youtube comments seriously should really wise up to be honest. I also find this to have ulterior motive to be totally honest, google is kinda crazy and wants to control and peek into everyones business.
Ceo Eric Schmidt quote: "If you have something that you don't want anyone to know, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place"
Comment has been collapsed.
It's more damaging when it's mixed with reality and you know the people involved, except spread rate is higher, school bullying is usually limited to the school's range, but online bullying has no boundries... you can get embarressed in the entire world because of a mistake, think about how that would affect a kid.
Comment has been collapsed.
They banned me for using Hillary Clinton as a name, said it was fake, like they would know, bunch of jerk faces I tell you.
Comment has been collapsed.
I get the idea, and while it is a blow to jerks all around the web, it's also a blow to freedom of speech. Who knows what could be the next step after this. Also, if you can't get over some total strangers saying mean things to you through the net, then it is something you have to learn, get over it.
Comment has been collapsed.
" Imagine if you were at risk for losing your entire +Google account (including +Gmail +Google+ and others) because you were being an abusive, harassing dickface? " What if somebody doesn't use gmail or just makes an account with fake name, they can just make another one. It doesn't fix anything, and doesn't really permanently or seriously hurt anybody, im sorry, but its true. The only solution imo is to not care what some random internet troll is posting, if you can't make yourself do that you shouldn't even read comments. However even if it helped it doesn't make it right to make us create an account for something we don't care about and will never use just so we can post comments on youtube videos. I don't care about their unsuccessful social media site, i won't use it, i don't even use facebook, but it at least isn't making me log into it to post comments on a site that can and has worked perfectly fine without it
Comment has been collapsed.
Trolls don't get charged in any of the cases: Bullies do. There are lots of debates out there to what that means. The greatest deciding factors now are: Directly attacking a person; Discriminating remarks to the point of a hate crime; furthermore, and the most important one, actually attacking that person in their living environment.
Make no mistake it is very hard to create a Google account and tricking anyone. Thought it is a site on the internet never forget where Goggle servers are located.Here is a good article about what is happening with these servers. Trying to create a new account to bully someone will raise flags on these systems. . . Most important quote if you don't read the whole thing :
"Since many of the world's leading technology companies are based in the US, essentially anyone who participates in our interconnected world and uses popular services like Google or Skype can have their privacy violated through the Prism programme,"says Privacy International on its website.
Comment has been collapsed.
My thought apply to both trolls and bullies, if somebody can bully you on the internet, and it hurts you in any way, you probably shouldn't even be there. Also none of this stops people from making a new account and just doing it all again, or to have multiple accounts to post the same thing many times, i don't think google can ban a computer as people can change their ip adress and start again. I don't think it does anything at the moment other then piss people off
Comment has been collapsed.
If somebody can bully you on the internet? or how about this?. These are more then just getting hit with trolls on chat there are people targeting people via cell phones E-mail and even using Facebook to harass these people's friends.
Google and Facebook have all ready vowed to aid in the criminal prosecution of the people conducting themselves in this manner. The question is to what extent. People don't need to flee some loser who is stalking them. There is a line to what that is but still . . . The most foolish answer ever is to give in to persecution, thus becoming an enabler to these people. I mean just look at ___ in history who overcame adversity.
Comment has been collapsed.
From what i read, it was more bullying in person then on facebook, and i stand by my statement that if you are hurt by internet posts, you shouldn't even read them. I understand that many people have problems irl and that these posts might be just a tip of the iceberg that pushes them over the edge, but i really don't think adding google + changed anything for the better, and i think those people should try to help themselves or ask help from their loved ones. Internet is what it is, and you really can't change it. Since people are anonymous they can post what they like without consequences, so we should all personally learn to deal with it, instead of globally imposing stupid rules that, when push comes to shove, don't help at all. Also you didn't really make a singe argument about what google + is actually helping as opposed to the comments as they were before, im willing to admit if im wrong, but im interested in hearing about the good sides of it, that i seem to fail to see. How does somebody stalk on youtube, if you are talking about negative comments towards content creators, that can't really be helped, i don't see how somebody would stalk an individual commenter. As far as facebook is concerned, you can just unfriend the person. None of this has changed since the new update btw, its just that people have no character limit now. As far as inappropriate behaviour goes i saw many more pictures of penises and pedobers and virus links too for that matter in the last few days then since i first began watching youtube videos till the new update, this is just ridiculous
Comment has been collapsed.
no one ever said it was good. Like I have stated before I am 50/50 on the issue. I was bullied in a person to person scenario. . . Physically beaten up and the what not. In some ways it is sad that words on the net can effect people like this.
On the other there it would be nice to have some sort of way to figure out who the extremists are. The people who actually use E-mail cellphones and publish mean images bombarding people constantly. That being said we are not talking about single posts. . . We are talking about people who use multiple mediums to harass someone constantly. I've had people here who have agitated me to the point where I almost got a ban. I've gotten into heated debates where people have called me retarded , stupid, and many other things. . . none of those touch on what a cyber-bully is. I've seen users get other users to break down too. . .again this is nothing that the laws that are being implemented are dealing with: they are dealing with people who have nowhere to hide by merely turning off the internet. There are people out there who do much, much more vile things then call people losers. I'm quite shocked there are people out there who think this issue had to do with mere posts on YouTube or Facebook.
Edit: Yes I don't make any argument for that I merely asked if that is what is being implied between the exchange I presented. . . nothing more.
Comment has been collapsed.
I was bullied when i was a kid, so i know what thats like, but honestly, on the internet, from random people there is no real physical danger, so you just learn to get over it. As it is now, i don't think google + changed anything for the better, and i don't think its possible to limit bullying on the internet if we continue to stay anonymous, which is honestly the only way i would have it, the internet where everybody knows who you are kinda looses its point. As it is now, bullys can just make new accounts and do the same things to the same or different people and get away with it. Its wrong, but thats the way it is. In the end those are just words and we all just need to learn to deal with words, especially those coming from a random stranger on the internet, who most likely just wants to get you upset, and that alone makes him worthless in my eyes.
Comment has been collapsed.
While i think its very tragic and sad, she made some poor choices that let to her cyber bullying problems, and obviously the irl situation matters, but thats too complex really. It matters what kind of personal info you share with strangers on the internet. Once its on the web its there for everyone to see and you should assume so before wondering if you should post something. In my experience if you don't get too friendly with strangers you should be fine
Comment has been collapsed.
Meh, may you never have to see it first hand. I do find it a bit disturbing that you can justify child pornography being posted around the internet; and more personally, to all of that children's peers so easy. But hey she should have known better. . . as you so elegantly say. I mean all 12 year old know about the consequences of their actions right?
Comment has been collapsed.
I don't justify child pornography, you do have a point about that, they are children, and are more easily taken advantage of. Parenting shows there, for example my parents still tell me not to exchange personal information with random strangers, even though im going to college now :) I think chatting sites like facebook, chatroulete or whatever its called, maybe even skype should get more strict control, but i don't think youtube is a part of that problem, and again i think the best protection against that kind of problem we can get from good upbringing and a bit of common sense EDIT: How did we even start discussing this, the original topic was google +. So no, i don't think integrating google + into youtube will stop cyber stalking and/or bullying
Comment has been collapsed.
We got into this due to your misconception of what cyber bullying is when you have stated that it has to do with one site or a single post. I've been trying to inform you how that isn't the case but you keep going back to the post Facebook thing.
You justified child pornography with " she made some poor choices that let to her cyber bullying problems". I'm guessing you mostly are speaking without much comprehension of the events that are going on. See Amanda Todd Was coxed into a Carrie scenario and then was harassed by a topless photo of herself. She moved thee schools and turned off the internet like you so constantly have figured would be a solution. Her tormentor stalked her at the other schools though people who would post about her. . . her tormentor didn't post at her. . . I don't know. You may never get it, but if you wish to still prompt the turn it off argument maybe I'll educate someone else. . . I uno.
Sorry but the turn it off excuses just doesn't apply to many of these scenarios and the people who honestly are foolish enough to think that the extreme situations where people are harassing these people in real life after an encounter on the internet. Sorry I guess you missed the point where this is a bit close to home with me.
I think to commit suicide is foolish. I think bullies are weak people taking their insecurity out on other people. I do also tend to believe that justifying the acts of bullies by noting the faults of their victims is the same ignorance, that was once, portrayed by telling a slave that the lashes on their back are due to not doing what master said.
Comment has been collapsed.
Yes, i now know more about it, thanks for the info. I said that i don't justify child pornography, its disgusting, but she could have avoided it by not taking the topless photo. You're missing my point, i think all of this is very sad, but it can be avoided if we use the internet with caution, and if parents educate their children, and teach them how to behave and what to avoid. I fully agree on your thoughts on suicide and bullies. I still think that connecting google + to youtube doesn't change anything, and im sorry, but the topic is really grim, and i feel like many people in similar situation might be hurt by my comments, though believe me its unintentionally, so i would not want to continue this discussion. I think these happenings are tragic, but i don't see a way internet can be made safer, since everyone can enter false info. The best protection we can have now is to educate ourselves and just try to not get ourselves in the situation where people will have a motive to stalk, bully and harass us. Also im sorry im posting all of this in walls of text, i can't get the formatting to work
Comment has been collapsed.
As an active youtube content creator, I'm actually a bit upset about this. I review video games and the very nature of my channel inspires people to lash out since not everyone agrees with my opinion. I believe this is just apart of free speech though and goes along with being a critic. I'm perfectly fine with defending my opinions in a clear and concise way, and I'm not a fan of censorship of any form. I believe it should be left up to the video creator in terms of what to allow in their comment section. I can handle "Cyber Bullying" but I see how this could be a problem for children.
There's already the option to disable comments entirely for a video though, so I'm not sure what the problem is. As wotgamer mentioned in the first response to this thread, Google is a private company and they can do whatever they want. At this rate though, they have more power and influence than most governments...
Comment has been collapsed.
Google is not trying to clean anything. That's a bullshit excuse that lined up with their sleazy plan to force more users into Google+.
They don't care about what goes on in the comments of every video. Frankly, neither do I. I know I might come off as a jerk about this, but I honestly can't see how words sent over the internet by anonymous people you don't know can or should affect you, except when it in massive amounts.
The stuff that went on in YouTube's comments originally amounted to little more than some impolite, grammatically incorrect rage posts. Flag/Ignore and move on. Now YouTube's system is to randomly select comments that, through some arbitrary means, are selected as "Top" Comments, regardless of content, and prominently show them instead of allowing for the bad comments to just float away, lost in a sea of comment pages.
Futhermore, now people who legitimately like Google+ are getting screwed over. I've seen many, MANY G+ users who have had to fight random people on the internet commenting on their Google+ updates, which Google has somehow decided should belong in the Top Comments section of the video, instead of just on the page of the user, as any GOOD social media website would. I feel bad that these people now have to be locked in the same cage as the other dickheads and they have no means of fighting against this.
This update was terrible, and Google will refuse to revert it. It's not going to make anything better, no matter what the Google stuff will make you believe.
Comment has been collapsed.
If this is what they're trying to do, they are succeeding. I stopped commenting on YouTube because I don't want to make a Google+ profile, period. I also noticed that popular YouTube channels that I'm subscribed to get a lot less comments than they used to before the change.
Comment has been collapsed.
Lots of youtubers disabled comments for their videos just because of the new, "improved" comment system that doesn't even work. Too much spam and bullshit comments. And I agree with those youtubers. Since Google bought YouTube it has been slowly going to shit. It's just matter of time before rich Google assholes realise they ruined YT.
Comment has been collapsed.
Well, that's fucking bullshit. Censorship doesn't work.
They could just make the comments text-only, easily rated and reportable, and solve the problem. If your comments are lowly rated/constantly flagged, you are muted for 1 minute before being able to post another comment. The next offense is two minutes, and then 4 minutes, and then so on.
Comment has been collapsed.
i hope the finally fix the bug that doesnt let me ENTER youtube, that is what is important here.
Comment has been collapsed.
nope, it just keeps on loading forever, and when i enter some videos directly sometimes, its a small chance but sometimes i can get into youtube, but the videos wont load.
i started using a third party program called unblock proxy, it doesnt load comments at all and it uses a different player, then i can get into youtube and watch videos.
Comment has been collapsed.
As far as im concerned about the comments section, the only thing they need to fix is the top comments. Top comments used to have to require many people upvoting them to be there, now they just need to be the most replied, and idiots often reply to trolls so its all troll shit.
If people are too stupid and/or lazy to mute and report people for spam, its their fucking issue, not google+'s..
The funniest ones are the people who make a huge ascii art picture saying google+ sucks WHEN THEY USE GOOGLE+ TO POST SUCH AN IMAGE.
Comment has been collapsed.
43 Comments - Last post 2 hours ago by Myklex
1 Comments - Last post 4 hours ago by lostsoul67
71 Comments - Last post 5 hours ago by lostsoul67
76 Comments - Last post 6 hours ago by Reidor
765 Comments - Last post 8 hours ago by grimfandango8888
43 Comments - Last post 9 hours ago by Qnemes
12 Comments - Last post 9 hours ago by orono
421 Comments - Last post 4 minutes ago by Gawrazan
37 Comments - Last post 8 minutes ago by yoko666
2,176 Comments - Last post 12 minutes ago by Eudoxia
6,339 Comments - Last post 19 minutes ago by Oppenh4imer
3 Comments - Last post 33 minutes ago by Calibr3
7 Comments - Last post 44 minutes ago by BarbaricGenie
161 Comments - Last post 1 hour ago by MpoMp
But apparently they are going to "fix the system" And one of the feature is that if one person is caught constantly trolling they can never comment again.
what I'm referring to ------->Clicky.
This could also mean the new system is setting up for the new anti-bullying campaign. Soon, it seams many countries are going to hold people accountable for what they post online. It seems Youtube is setting up for this.
I'm 50/50 on this. On the one hand I had a friend's cousin who killed herself over being cyber bullied. . . on the other Where's the line drawn?
Robert Jones originally shared this
As much crap as I talk about +YouTube & +YouTube Creators changes recently, this is one for which I am in full support! The comment system has been broken and gimpy for a long time, this will begin to fix that, although I don't think it's the last time we should see some innovation in this space, there is still work to be done here.
The G+ integration will probably continue to piss people off, and its somewhat sloppy implementation here leaves much to be desired. However, I do believe that the difficulty of "keeping your YouTube username" by way of linking a G+ page to your YT account is actually a GOOD feature for most users of the site (read: the watchers who rarely, if ever, create videos). For the video-making YouTube users this will help quell the hate speech and rancid pool of comments by attaching a real name and face to each of those comments. It will also (hopefully) create stronger consequences for those users who spread hateful, harassing comments around the site.
Imagine if you were at risk for losing your entire +Google account (including +Gmail +Google+ and others) because you were being an abusive, harassing dickface? Awesome IMO. Losing access to Google's services could be a HUGE blow to someone's daily life, thus showing them the error of their ways more readily. Do I think Google will likely bust out this kind of enforcement? Probably not right away, but they certainly will have the ability to as more and more people are pushed into the greater Google environment through YT and other services.
Comment has been collapsed.