[FINAL EDIT]

This will be my final edit to this thread, which will hopefully put this whole ugly buisness to rest and help some
people learn an important lesson.

To all of you who are confused. Originally, I posted a message here on the public forum asking to be contacted by people who are interested to help me brainstorm new ideas for a new scamless group that actually works, which would've hopefully benefited the trading and gifting community here.

I did not post any in depth details regarding my idea, since I didn't want it to stir...well..the useless drama it had stirred anyways. Basicly all I posted were a few lines thanking the community for being the awesome community that it was, followed by a basic outline of my vision for the group:
To sum it up - a trade group which will hopefully lead to big value present giveaways on the steam gifts site.

I deliberately did not get into minor details, which were suppoesed to have been discussed with said "Brainstorm group" in private. Which basicly means that people did not really know, in fact, what they were arguing against. But I guess for those who want to argue for the sake of arguing, it does not matter.

The first wave of comments I got within the first few hours was overwhelmingly hurtful, filled with nothing but insolent, arrogant responses, attacking me on personal levels in various ways and forms. I found myself being dragged into off topic arguments, trying to explain my good intentions and fend off the wave of malicious personal attacks aimed to hurt and hit below the belt and call other "trolls" to jump onto the pissing wagon.

I'm sorry to admit I fell into their trap. It just got worse and worse and I found myself getting dragged further down by cheap rhetorical tricks, instead of dealing with the topic, for which the thread was created.

A very wise user explained these cheap tricks providing a link to wikipedia called argumentum ad hominem:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

I have learned a thing or two reading it, and hopefully will do my best to avoid being manipulated like that in the future.

Now, regarding said members, who believe they were just expressing their disagreement with the topic - If you have critisism there is proper way of expressing it and get your point across, without stirring up drama on purpose.

Read said link above (Ad hominem) - Thats NOT how you build up valid critisism, but I guess you already knew that.
And to those of you who did not know that, and do not know why you were labeled "trolls" by other members - that link will hopefully clear some issues up.

Throughout this entire argument,few members expressed their disagreement in an intelligent, constructive way, which got their point across, and who I respect for their opinion.

Regarding specific, especially insolent arrogant "trolls" - I do not need to earn your "respect", "reputation" or "permission" to do anything. Your arrogance knows no bounds.

Not all is bleak though - I was happy to see that some people eventually stood up against the wave of shameless insults and provided some moral support, while trying to get their point across in an intelligent manner.

And I think what can be learned here, is how to lead better debate ethics. Which is mainly why I post this reply, here.

As for the group - it will not be created.
For those of you who supported me, thank you for your support.
I hope we could all let this ugly incident go now.

13 years ago*

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  1. All you are going to get are people who will want skyrim for coupons.
  2. All you are going to get are 0 people contributing gifts.
  3. All you really want is to get games right?
    EDIT : Besides, all the other trading groups(no names mentioned) are terrible. I've seen some of the mods of these trading groups clueless to actual trading and the members are all just as clueless. heck, i would even comment on the group leader, but that's another story for some other time.

EDIT 2 to main post EDIT: Save your gifts for yourself, please don't even try starting the group.

13 years ago
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don't worry, you wont be getting any gifts from me.

13 years ago
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Implying i want anything

13 years ago
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@Tzell,
Don't need to be an ass about it.

13 years ago
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With those manners, i would rather buy shit than receiving it from you ..

13 years ago
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For general knowledge - My "nasty" comment was made here after a very long argument I've had with mr. must which can be seen if you scroll up.

I find it a bit odd I'm considered the one with bad manners here, regarding some of the comments around this thread.
And, why are we still arguing over this?

13 years ago
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Good one. Keep on leeching.

13 years ago
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In before Lokonopa:

ENTER AT YOUR OWN RISK! DON'T GIVEAWAY GAMES TO GROUPS YOU DO NOT TRUST!

13 years ago
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The ability to trade almost every game on steam? That's a bit much, don't you thing?

13 years ago
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Inb4emailspam

13 years ago
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Just in case my name comes up somehow, I'll preempt that and say that Tzell added me as a friend earlier to discuss this group, see if I could figure out how to improve on the idea and make it work (he thinks I'm friendly. Ze fool! :P).

My response was that, in theory, it's a great idea and would be as close to a second-hand market as is possible with Steam. In practise, it would take many hundreds of dollars just to set up in the first place, then we would need to have a total monopoly on all trading to get it to work because (and yes, I know the irony of saying it on this site) we couldn't rely on the charitability of people, who would want the best deal possible when trading (if I could trade Fortix for Skyrim, I would goddamn be there). I vetoed this whole plan so unless it's had some major changes since then, I can't support this group due to fundamental flaws. Sorry, Tzell.

13 years ago
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I concur

13 years ago
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If we don't trust people, this site would've never been created.

worry not, your good name shall not be tarnished with this filth.

13 years ago
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The problem, Tzell, is that spending imaginary money on games and winning gifts is a totally different type of trust (also, it's violated often) than trading trust is.

13 years ago
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13 years ago
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No sir, I don't like it.

13 years ago
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+1

13 years ago
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I thought you were . . . circus midgets.

13 years ago
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I'll join..., i've got heaps i wanna give away/trade

13 years ago
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>durr hurr im not a rich guy can't buy games

>View all 336 games

Yeah, nah. You're a cunt.

13 years ago
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ok, you give away first game

13 years ago
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:)

13 years ago
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I plan to do just that

13 years ago
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Honestly, I did not expect this much negativity from this place.

For all the people who claim I want to do this to get free games - If you look at my steam profile you'd see I have plenty, which would indicate (to most logical people) That my account was not created 2 days ago and I'm not some 12 yearold kid looking to win free games.
I'm trying to think up of a creative way to make it easier for people to obtain the games they want.

And to Duckie - Yes I bought games over the past 2 years. In most which were at 75% off. And yes I've spent a bit more than I should've on games. When I said I'm not rich, I meant I cannot spend dozens and hundreds of dollars on gifts to complete strangers (such as yourself). So yes, I'm a bit of a steam addict, which was bad for my wallet. If you want to get technical, I've spent 750 bucks on steam in total over the past 2.5 years. Which is about 25 bucks per month. I'm sure you spend that amount on things you love.
Your cunt comment was very kind, thank you.

And dimon222 and the likes - Yes, the first few games would come from my inventory. I've spent 10$ on a few copies of 'Lucid' to give out here as gifts and / or have in the groups inventory for trading.

machomuu - Yes it sounds a bit much, but big things start with big ideas I believe.

c00lizz - You don't have to donate to enter the group.

13 years ago
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Spending $15 a month on giveaways for some actually decent games on sale isn't a sign of wealth by a mile. I do it because I can and I like giving away stuff, even though I could get the games for myself. You're just a cheap ass, and make giving stuff away sound like a bad thing, even though you enter giveaways yourself. Hypocrite.

You can go have your fun in your soon-to-exist leech-infested daily deal trading group.

13 years ago
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I would very much like to create more meaningful giveaways (if youd look closely youd see I did create a giveaway already).
Giving stuff is not a bad thing at all, which is why I want to make this group.
And I will have fun, thank you.

13 years ago
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Lucid? "Giving out high value games in group raffles."

Cool story bro.

13 years ago
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Its better than nothing.
And my goal is to give high value games, this is why said group is in planning.
I really don't understand why so many people lash out at me for no reason.

13 years ago
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I'm sorry I didn't get to read the original message. At least from this reply you sound like a decent person, and don't deserve the amount of scorn I've seen here. thejadefalcon may be right about the idea (I can't tell because I haven't read it) but that's still not a reason to insult you.

13 years ago
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^this exactly

13 years ago
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+1

13 years ago
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"Besides, all the other trading groups(no names mentioned) are terrible. I've seen some of the mods of these trading groups clueless to actual trading and the members are all just as clueless. heck, i would even comment on the group leader, but that's another story for some other time."

13 years ago
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which is exactly why I would like to make one thats good. or atleast, decent.

13 years ago
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You're posting this on steamgifts, where people love gifts only. Hypocrite much? Also i see you're in S-Gifters, that other group where the dude basically gave away nothing and tried to force people to gift.

13 years ago
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I'm posting this on steam gifts because I (thought) people here are trustworthy, and generally kind by nature.
As for s-gifters, I do not know the 'dude'. I simply joined a few groups which I thought give out private raffles.
any more questions?

13 years ago
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"I simply joined a few groups which I thought give out private raffles"

want to make trading group
have 300 games
still wants to win private raffles

13 years ago
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ah, so you enter raffles (265 so far) because you want to what - Give the games you win to hungry children?

13 years ago
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Games gifted $0
complain about someone else

Oh...

13 years ago
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the person who won it doesnt seem to redeem his gift, why is this an issue again? whats that got to do with anything?

13 years ago
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You have no reputation. You have nothing to back you up. Yet here, you want to make a group where people can "TRADE" and "GIVEAWAY". Isn't that obvious? You have no one's respect to be doing it. Especially over here at Steamgifts, where the theme is to give. You're making a trading group. It should be over at steamtrades if you were actually serious about making a trading group, or heck , even steam trading forums. See how you contradict your actions with your words?I'll even add in the fact you were looking for Generous people.

Save yourself further embarrassment.

13 years ago
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let him do what he want

it'll be his problem if i he will have fail

13 years ago
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Some of you can be real dicks, this guy tried to do something he thought was nice and wrote a lovely paragraph or two about the community (now edited out) and you guys made him leave. I understand some of your concerns and I know we've had some trouble on SteamGifts with these kinds of things but don't you think this was taken a bit far?

13 years ago
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I'm not even going to start on this. enjoy thinking we're dicks.

13 years ago
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Not a very enjoyable thought, but unfortunately the one that comes to mind.

13 years ago
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Comes in.

Hi, dick. Burn and die.

Leaves.

13 years ago
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okay ;(

13 years ago
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What did you thought? He a furry.

13 years ago
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waits for the relevance of that asinine statement to appear

13 years ago
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What... the... hell... guys?

The fuck happened here? While there were problems with the idea as a whole, including, as I said to Tzell, the ability to set up trust between it and the community, there was no need for this sort of reaction, was there?

13 years ago
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Honestly, no one's really said anything that negative yet. My only problem with this is that it was given up so easily. If you have an idea you have to be resilient, I suggest that tzell not give it up yet.

13 years ago
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pony

13 years ago
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What? The man was called a cunt and a leecher twice in no less than five hours of his post. Given the disproportionate constructive criticism and almost complete lack of support, could you really blame him for not keeping his enthusiasm?

13 years ago
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yep

13 years ago
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I fought in Nam for this?!

13 years ago
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Private Xar?

13 years ago
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Good job /v/

13 years ago
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well if the group failed you can always join my group. The only requirement is that I am the only one allowed to enter any group or private giveaways. I hope to see you guys soon. And yes I won't make any giveaways.

13 years ago
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Good One.

13 years ago
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Next games from me comes to you.

13 years ago
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sigh As usual, trolls are much more likely to be in the forums than elsewhere. Tzell, my best advice is to air your ideas among friends rather than on BBS or in forums. It's too easy for people to spit in your face over the internet. If you really want to start a new group, I recommend feeling out for some like-minded people on Steam and then starting off small. Big communities usually grow up from smaller ones. Just remember that if your community really becomes big, you will end up with a lot of members who will not share your original vision. For example, I have had my giveaways for the Zombie Shooter games repeatedly reported and removed, just because people were overzealous about the ambiguous wording in the FAQ. SteamGifts isn't a bad community; it's just what happens when your community grows.

13 years ago
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thank you for your kind reply
I guess it took awhile for the sane people to appear, the first wave of comments was a bit overwhelming.

I was thinking exactly that, that it wouldn't be wise to post a suggestion like that on the public forums, but, sadly I do not know any 'like minded' people, yet, which is why I posted it here.

I will think of what to do next.

13 years ago
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You probably should have left your message a little longer. Even if you edited to add a comment, it would have been a good idea to leave it. That way most people would have been able to judge it, and perhaps discussion could have taken off in more productive directions.

13 years ago
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It's a good idea to stop bumping threads which has no purpose. And apparently anyone who disagrees are trolls, even if all the points are valid.

13 years ago
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Quote by Wikipedia: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers into an emotional response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion."

It's all you did, with every single one of your messages. And if you think "all the points are valid", try and look at something called argumentum ad hominem: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

From what I could read, most of, if not all your posts are simple logical fallacies, therefore anything but valid.

13 years ago
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You obviously care a lot about this thread, or you wouldn't keep posting here.

13 years ago
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Okay, this is still going on and nobody's being nice to each other.

Abandon thread! dives out the airlock

13 years ago
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13 years ago
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What the hell is that from?

13 years ago
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Shark Attack 3: Megalodon.

13 years ago
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If I hadn't heard of that before, I'd think you were lying to me. I can totally believe it though.

13 years ago
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Please don't bump old thread. Thank You. (Admns)

13 years ago
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If you want to create a new group look for something other groups don't have. The answer is obvious... wooden legs. Require everyone to have wooden legs and rabbits. Everyone loves rabbits.

13 years ago
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Today Native Americans make up 1.37% of the population of the United States.[citation needed] No conclusive evidence exists to determine how many native people lived in North America before the arrival of Columbus.[1][2] David Stannard notes that more conservative demographers cite a figure of about 7 or 8 million inhabitants.[3] The Library of Congress uses 900,000 as the total number in its educational article "Destroying the Native American Cultures".[4] By 1800, the native population of the present-day United States had declined to approximately 600,000, and only 250,000 Native Americans remained in the 1890s.[5] As the direct result of written and broken treaties, warfare, and of forced assimilation, the Indians were virtually destroyed by the European immigration that created the United States.[4] Scholars believe that among the causes of the overwhelming population decline of the American natives were new infectious diseases carried by Europeans. Native Americans had no acquired immunity to such diseases, which had been chronic in Eurasian populations for centuries.[6] For instance, some estimates indicate case fatality rates of 80–90% in Native American populations during smallpox epidemics.[7]

According to the U.S. Bureau of the Census (1894), "The Indian wars under the government of the United States have been more than 40 in number. They have cost the lives of about 19,000 white men, women and children, including those killed in individual combats, and the lives of about 30,000 Indians."[8]

13 years ago
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Welcome to the internet, i think there's no need to explain stuff like this, the troll will keep on trolling and the guy who understood will most likely support you or give you his objective criticism about your idea.

Just dont get let down by shitty attitudes like those, a stupid person will remain stupid no matter how hard you hit him.

A shame your group didnt go through, personally i would have launched it anyways and see how it performed in time, but hey its your call :)

13 years ago
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"the guy who understood will most likely support you or give you his objective criticism about your idea."

I am proud to be this guy. :D

13 years ago
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TL;DR
"I didn't like what people said to me, I'm too emotional and shouldn't be on the Internet. Here's me: Q_Q and this is my blog."

Seriously, even if your idea was brilliant, you can't get over-dramatic when people say **** to you. It just makes YOU look bad in the end and then the other guys win.

13 years ago
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Closed 13 years ago by Tzell.